Press Release–Governor acknowledges death of abortion patient in Wichita

[The following is a press release from Kansans For Life. -OR]

PRESS RELEASE

For immediate release: Monday, February 21,2005
Contact: Mary Kay Culp, Exec. Dir., Kansans for Life
913-406-4446

Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius’ memo to Board of Healing Arts admits death of woman in Wichita

Kansans for Life believes Governor’s signature could have possibly averted woman’s death!

Abortion clinic activists in Wichita have videotaped five ambulance transports from George Tiller’s Wichita Women’s Health Care late-term abortion clinic to Wesley Medical Center in the past 13 months (www.operationrescue.org). One was last week (Feb. 17) and one was January 13 which involved a woman who they were later informed had died. To date, there has been no media inquiry and little coverage, probably because of a lack of official recognition of the death.

Kansans for Life was recently given a February 2 memo from Governor Sebelius to Larry Buening, Executive Director of the Kansas Board of Healing Arts (BOHA). In the Feb. 2 memo, Governor Kathleen Sebelius asked the BOHA to investigate “the circumstances of the death of a patient at the Wichita Women’s Health Center on or about January 13, 2005.”

Kansans for Life is taking that as an official indication that the woman in the January 13 incident indeed died.

(Note: The last person who wants there to be a known death at Dr. Tillers is Governor Sebelius, so it is impossible to believe that this was simply a failure to apply the word “alleged” in the middle of the phrase “the death”.)

Kansans for Life Executive Director Mary Kay Culp said: “Use of the Board of Healing Arts alone to investigate this death makes us question just how serious the Governor is about getting to the bottom of the circumstances surrounding the death in Wichita. Just this week the Board proved once again just how slowly and ineffectively they move when the subject of their inquiry is an abortion clinic.” (See below and attached documents.)

Governor Sebelius, however, does appear to be taking the possible political ramifications seriously, given that the memo also asks for ‘the Board’s determination of whether H.B. 2176, passed by the 2003 legislature would have in any way mitigated or prevented the patient’s death.’ HB 2176 (the Abortion Clinic Licensing bill) was vetoed by Sebelius in 2003. In her veto message she asserted that: “Kansans experience and appreciate some of the highest standards for medical care in the country.”

Regarding this determination, Mr. Buening of the BOHA, for reasons stated below, is not likely to give the Governor an answer she does not want to hear, but we will: Yes, we believe the Abortion Clinic Licensing bill could have mitigated or prevented the recent death of a woman in a Wichita abortion clinic. One can certainly make the case that the three ambulance transports last summer and fall would have resulted in Department of Health action under the Abortion Clinic Licensing bill, which would have required injuries to be reported to the Department of Health within 10 days, and deaths reported by the “next department business day.”

The bill would have required the department to inspect and license abortion clinics using abortion-specific standards that include assurance of working emergency equipment and trained personnel. And it would have given the Department of Health the power to ‘deny, suspend or revoke a license in any case in which it finds that there has been a substantial failure to comply?’

The Kansas House and Senate passed Abortion Clinic Licensing after careful deliberation of voluminous factual evidence. This included testimony of OB-GYN’s who took full days from their practices to testify, and the fact that the bill has been upheld in federal court five times because the U.S. Supreme Court has said abortion is unique and unlike other medical practices. Governor Sebelius’ veto ignored the legislature’s informed recognition of the desperate need for effective regulation of Kansas abortion clinics, and for that she should be held accountable.”

Reasons the public cannot trust the Governor or the director of the Board of Healing Arts to be objective include the fact that:

– Wichita abortionist George Tiller, owner of Wichita Women’s Health Center, the site of the January 13th incident, and his Pro Kan Do Political Action Committee have been major contributors to Ms. Sebelius’ campaigns for public office. In 2003, Tiller lobbied strongly against passage of the Abortion Clinic Licensing Bill.

– BOHA Executive Director Larry Buening is married to a top Sebelius staffer. Indeed when ORW tried to see the Governor about the January 13th incident, Mrs. Buening was sent out to talk to them.

– Even if there were no family ties to the Governor’s office, the BOHA has proven over and over that they do not act effectively against substandard abortionists. Last week’s slap on the wrist to a Kansas City, Kansas abortionist after a one-year probe of serious confirmed complaints continues the record of BOHA ineffectiveness. (See below).

– The “Guidelines for Office-Based Surgery” touted by the Governor and abortion supporters as an alternative to the vetoed bill in 2003, and offered as part of the remedy in the recent disciplinary action against the KCK abortionist, have no force of law or procedure for timely or efficient enforcement, especially as regards closing the clinic while deficiencies are addressed. They recommend but do not require reporting of injuries or death.

– BOHA’s has a long record of slow and ineffective oversight of substandard abortionists:

Last week the BOHA stated their findings against Krishna Rajanna, Kansas City, Kansas abortionist, one full year after complaints were filed. He was found by the BOHA to have :
–Failed to maintain adequate cleanliness, with overall clutter and disarray, including, but not limited to, non-lidded trash, overflowing sharps containers, carpet in a surgical area, & storing human tissue on a counter and then placing it in the freezer of a refrigerator with food storage;
–Improperly disposed of human/ tissue medical waste and sharp objects;
–Maintained medications that were expired;
–Dispensed medications without proper labeling;
–Kept unmarked, pre-drawn syringes of medication in the refrigerator;
–Violated the national standards for sedation & analgesia.

The disciplinary action against Rajanna included a fine of just $1,000.00 and a mandate that he obtain life support training, indicating he has not possessed the necessary emergency skills during the past year, if at all. Amazingly, BOHA is mandating how Rajanna practices, and what inspections and training he must undergo, without closing his doors until he meets expectations. (This is the same flawed pattern of disciplinary actions BOHA took against Rajanna’s former co-abortionists Kristin Neuhaus and Malcolm Knarr.) BOHA is selectively protecting only those women who go to Rajanna after February 2006, the final date for him to comply with all their requirements.

Kansans for Life (KFL) acted to force BOHA to acknowledge the atrocities of the Rajanna clinic after repeated requests from law enforcement to the BOHA fell on deaf ears. BOHA’s disciplinary document proves that whistleblower allegations were true, as were the clinic photos shown by the AG’s office to the legislature last year.

Rajanna grossly violates standards of cleanliness and medical practice, yet BOHA permits this substandard facility to stay open?without any guaranteed improved safety. Last month, a foreign-born woman was observed vomiting in Rajanna’s parking lot after her abortion, and although dizzy, would be driving herself home. This is an outrage! A clinic that is substandard should be closed. The Abortion Clinic Licensing bill would have allowed abortion businesses to remain open only if obeying abortion-specific standards.

KFL repeatedly chastised BOHA for its leniency on Ktistin Neuhaus’ violations beginning in 1999 and its foot-dragging on abortionist Malcom Knarr’s case in 1992. Neuhaus and Knarr had already been severely restricted by the federal Drug Enforcement Agency and their partner Rajanna was allegedly supporting himself by writing drug prescriptions improperly, leading to a lawsuit for wrongful death in 1995.

– The state’s six abortion clinics are currently defined simply as doctor’s offices and thus are not licensed as clinics. This means they fall only under the authority of BOHA-an agency set up to oversee doctors, not clinics. One abortion clinic voluntarily registers as an ASC (ambulatory surgical center) and submits to KDHE oversight, but the inspections are not abortion-specific and they have never been penalized for the multiple violations of the ASC regulations they are under. As it stands now, abortion clinics can, and do, violate their own industry standards with impunity.

– Abortion supporters do not want the public to know the truth about Kansas abortion emergencies and deaths because their excuse for making it legal was that it would be safe. They try to hide the four other known deaths from abortions performed by Kansas-based, licensed abortionists-in Kansas City 1989, Houston 1991, and St Louis 1981 & 1997. They know those deaths are only known because of civil lawsuits that were unable to be settled out of court. They know that under the current law there is no way to know how many other injuries and deaths there are. They know that patients and their families do not often report recent abortions to emergency room physicians (if the family even knows.) They know that 90% of late term abortions and 50% of the remaining abortions in Kansas are on women from out of state who leave soon after and are never heard from again.

Kansans for Life Executive Director Mary Kay Culp said:

“Kansans for Life asks why there is no transparency and accountability regarding abortion injuries and deaths in Kansas. We call upon the media to inquire and report these events and if stonewalled to demand answers of our elected officials. We want to know why the Governor isn’t questioned for using an agency to investigate the Wichita death headed by a man with family ties to the top of her administration-an agency which has shown an inability as recently as last week to effectively discipline practitioners when they are abortionists.

“These events in Wichita and Kansas City expose the myth that abortion clinics are safe because they are legal. Late-term abortionist George Tiller is reaping many benefits from his long time financial investment in Governor Sebelius. She vetoed the Abortion Clinic Licensing bill which would have required reporting of injuries and deaths at abortion clinics and checked for emergency equipment and properly trained personnel at abortion clinics. Why has the monitoring of abortion injuries and deaths in Kansas been left to only pro-life organizations?

“Kathleen Sebelius is protecting the abortion industry and her donors, not women. This is especially unfortunate because for abortion medical malpractice suits are not women are afraid to bring lawsuits against abortion clinics, no matter how substandard, given the possible publicity involved–a fact not lost on abortion clinics.”

Additional Info:

ORW reports that Tiller’s website listed Dr. Leroy Carhart as the physician on duty at the abortion clinic Jan. 13 and Feb.17. A google search on Carhart reveals the Nebraska AG’s office acted against him for accusations of incompetence by a former clinic administrator. Leroy Carhart successfully challenged Nebraska’s ban on partial birth abortion in the U.S. Supreme Court.)

Also note: The ambulance trips observed at Tiller’s WWHC clinic do not include any trips from the clinic to the hospital that may have been made in the clinic’s private van, or possible trips from LaQunita Inn where Tiller, until recently, when forbidden by LaQunita, routinely kept patients overnight.)

__________________________________________________________________

Microsoft Word COPY of letter (original in MS Publisher with logo)

(Hand-delivered) Feb.21, 2005

Dear Mr. Buening:
Your letter of February 14 summarizes the disciplinary action taken against abortionist Krishna Rajanna on Feb.12, 2005. Since Kansans for Life was the agent that allowed evidence to get recognized by you (where law enforcement and Wyandotte DA had failed) KFL would certainly have attended that meeting had your office notified me or posted it on the online BOHA agenda. We monitor your site and, although other practitioners’ names were listed for Feb. 12, Rajanna’s was not.

Additionally, as I am now Kansans for Life Director of Legislative Research, our new State Legislative Director Dan Williams wrote you in early January requesting an update as to the status of the Rajanna inquiry. He has received no reply.

When I attended your June 2005 meeting, it was plain to me that the Board was ignorant of the Rajanna clinic scandal. I appreciated the chance to speak for a few minutes and sent an informational follow-up letter to each Board member. Amazingly, I received not one response, nor even a short email acknowledging receipt of my letter by any member.
In my follow-up letter, I requested that the Board authorize you to tell the legislature that the Board Guidelines for Office-Based Surgery (OBS) were not equivalent to the vetoed clinic licensure bill which has passed federal court scrutiny 5 times. For at least 2 years, abortion supporters have claimed that your Guidelines sufficiently protect women in abortion clinics, but this Rajanna disciplinary action proves the contrary.

We are deeply disappointed, though unfortunately not surprised, at the results of your 1-year probe. Rajanna remains open today, operating without life-saving certification or accredited facility approval. According to your findings, KFL was right, and the AG was right, that a licensed practitioner has been operating a sub-standard, deficient, filthy clinic.
Despite your findings that Rajanna was, and is today, unable to guarantee life-saving services, he is still doing abortions as he “slides into” OBS compliance. Women are in jeopardy up until February 2006 at the Rajanna clinic. This is what BOHA intervention amounts to!

KFL has strenuously opposed this pattern of protecting abortionists rather than protecting the safety of women, as witnessed in your dealings with Rajanna’s former co-employees Kristin Neuhaus and Malcolm Knarr. You permitted Neuhaus to stay in business when she was practically unable to viably practice medicine due to DEA restrictions. You allowed women access to Neuhaus while she was under random drug testing, and prescription supervision. You described her deficient at every level of patient care: intake, monitoring, and recovery. Like Rajanna, she persisted in keeping pre-drawn syringes and was not certified in resuscitation.

Your stubborn resistance to removing admitted drug addict and felon Knarr was so appalling it personally lead me to this “hobby” of monitoring abortionists and malpractice in Kansas. The charges in the whistleblower affidavit that nailed Knarr incredibly “matches” the information of the Rajanna whistleblower 11years later! (see enclosed chart)
It is hard not to see politics, rather than logic and true professionalism, at work here. If there are other licensed practitioners “living on the edge” by doing risky procedures in their offices instead of licensed facilities, why not honestly address those problems separately? This is not a situation where you must treat all licensed practitioners equally because the U.S. Supreme Court has said Abortion is unique and unlike other medical practices. For over 30 years, litigation has clearly outlined the specific needs of abortion clinics, based on numerous, continuing cases of abortionists, like Rajanna, cutting corners.

Law enforcement officers who visited Rajanna’s clinic were disgusted, yet they were not able to find a state regulatory agency willing to close it. They saw roaches, bloodied floors and young women without medical training, much less a high school diploma, running an assembly-line nightmare. (As has been validated by New York Times, abortion clinics are notorious for employing impoverished untrained staffers.)

Your agency is ineffective at closing such a place without a statutory licensing authority. KDHE is also ineffective at forcing compliance from the Planned Parenthood clinic voluntarily licensed as an ASC. The abortion clinic licensing bill ALONE has the teeth to secure compliance from abortionists who are violating their own industry standards with impunity.

Additionally, the abortion clinic licensing bill mandates a clinic director with responsibility for monitoring the staff AND the abortionist. Your Guidelines do not. Kansas-licensed Leroy Carhart worked at a Humedco abortion clinic in Nebraska where the medical director charged him with using his cell phone and falling asleep during abortions, as well as breaking safety protocols. Even if Carhart has been issued a copy of your Guidelines, how are they monitored or enforced?

The disciplinary action mandating cardiac life-support training indicates Rajanna has not possessed the necessary emergency skills during this year, nor is he required to be certified as such until August 2005, while he continues to operate. Based on information from several sources in 2003 and 2004, Rajanna did not have the necessary monitoring equipment, trained staff, nor medical procedures in place to follow these guidelines. He did not have one person dedicated to monitoring the patient under analgesia & sedatives. He did not have a properly outfitted and manned recovery room.

In January, a pro-life citizen tried to help a foreign-born woman who was observed vomiting in Rajanna’s parking lot, and although dizzy, would be driving herself home. Why should we believe your “intervention” with Rajanna has changed anything? Yours is a reactive agency, and there are no signs posted, or public awareness campaigns conducted, on how to report deficient assembly-line abortion clinics.

This disciplinary action for Rajanna raises many troubling questions, specifically:

1.Regular observers at Rajanna’s clinic see him bring black garbage bags out of the office and into his car, and have followed him as he deposited this medical waste in various private housing dumpsters. How does the Board action secure daily compliance of medical waste or any other mandate?
2.When will the OSHA requirements be enforced, a complaint that the clinic whistleblower said he ignored?
3. Why is such a small fine incurred when so much expensive tax-funded manpower is involved?
4. Why do you not use the full force of your authority to close him until he passes OBS inspections and achieves life-support certification?
5. Kansas’ six abortion clinics belong in an inspection-based licensing program with legally tested standards. Why will you not relinquish them when you have neither the expertise nor the budget to micro-manage them?

I await your reply.

Sincerely,
Kathy Ostrowski, KFL Legislative Research Director

  • jerome

    ok, jade(d) and just a girl –

    i’m waiting for the tiller cheering section to weigh in on this story….

    hello….???

  • jerome

    jade

    you had another alternative.

    it was called ‘giving birth’.

    but your idol worship of baby killers like carhart and tiller is nothing short of perverted and sick.

    you need serious mental help. please seek some counseling.

  • dp

    Jade – “HOWEVER there are some things about my visit to Dr Tillers clinic that are questionable and that left me scared at times,”

    Now that scares me! If you even question anything about your experience… sounds like you are not listening to your heart at all…

    What’s that statement all about?

    I have been reading your’s and everyone else’s posts for sometime now… I want to say to you that I am sorry for the difficulties that you faced with your pregnancy. It’s rather upsetting to me to hear anyone call a woman who aborts… a killer and murderer… I personally would never do that.

    BTW, I am 100% pro-life and pro-woman!

  • Joanna

    Who wouldn’t be in favor of guidelines in a healthcare situation? I know if I was going for a checkup at the doctor’s, I would want to know that they had to clean up properly, label everything correctly, and follow guidelines that keep me safe. It sounds like, according to this article, the bill should have been signed into law to at least insure that women who have abortions would be treated in a cleaner, safer environment with appropriate follow-up care.

    I don’t agree with abortion, but if there are going to be clinics that provide abortions, they should be held to proper safety rules.

  • just a girl

    joanna,
    i do agree with you that no matter what service a healthcare clinic provides, there should be guidelines.i will say that some of the things i read here about rajanna’s clinic terrified me and a place as that one is described should be shut down.dr. tiller’s clinic was immaculately clean and his staff all professional.

  • just a girl

    very good point, jade.and i did check several national newscenters for the headline…and nothing, nada…

  • dp

    you both are repeating yourselves again and again about these stories not being in the media…MEDIA BIAS, anyone ever heard of it?

    Us pro-lifers know that these stories will not be on National News and may get just a few seconds on local.

    There is a better chance of a serial animal killer in a local neighborhood, killing off everyone’s pets, getting on the news.

  • just a girl

    dp,
    why would there be a national media bias?i would think that the death of a woman would definitely be enoughto grab national headlines.and even if it is determined that her cause of death was abortion,when you go in to have an abortion, you are required to sign and initial a list of comlicationsthat may occur.abortion is no more dangerous than any other medical procedure-just like any surgery there are risks.risks that iunderstood.

  • anthony

    jag

    your statement “why would there be a national media bias?” is patently laughable, and one of the silliest things i’ve ever seen on any of the links on this site.

    if you don’t understand the intensely proabortion, progay, anti-Christian, anti-conservative, anti-family media, then i guess that explains why you can hold such uninformed views on so many subjects – you are spoon-fed by a biased media.

    the mainstream media, who support abortion and consider it sacrosanct, would NEVER report on any story that would ‘hurt the cause’. women can die, and it means nothing, just as long as abortion remains legal and dullards like you consider it ‘safe’.

  • dp

    Right on Anthony! Like I said only us pro-lifers know the truth when it comes to the media.

    just a girl – abortion is legal…the media will not say a word..

    Just recently Customer Report listed abortion as a birth control method.. what does that tell you?

    Most of all Anthony… I think the bias falls directly under Anti-Family.. you hit the nail on the head with that one. The media was the reason for the support of Roe v Wade.. the media is the reason for support of abortion to this day.

  • just a girl

    dp,
    i have never heard of the customer report…i do not believe in using abortion as a form of birth control, but in cases where the child is terminally ill/deformed/would not have a good quality of or the mother was raped,that abortion is an option that should not be taken away.i have read stories of women who have had several abortions and while i will always support a woman’s right to choose, i don’t agree with the women who use abortion as their form of birth control.and most of the women who are doing that do not wait until they are in their second or third trimester to do it.dr. tiller specializes in late term abortions & mostly all of the women in my group were having their first abortion.after the procedure, he did provide us with one month’s birth control and he told us that most women will experience another unwanted pregnancy within 18 months after the abortion unless we use some type of birth control.

  • dp

    http://www.consumerreports.org/main/home.jsp

    type in BIRTH CONTROL in the search, check out first article, click on birth control… outline EC and also outlines abortion methods.

    I believe you when you say that Dr. Tiller helped you…that is how you feel…

    BTW, there are approx. 1.6 million families wanting to adopt a baby. These women who electively abort at 7 – 8 months a healthy baby, they are still giving birth anyway at the clinic.. why not choose life for their baby and let a man and woman who can not have children take their baby and love it? What’s so wrong with that? and when I say electively, I mean women who abort for mild emotional and finacial reasons which according to the doctor is a health reason.

    Whats done is done in your past. I will not judge you and ask these questions directly to you like so many people on this post has done. I am just trying to understand that if a woman was to give birth anyway with the late-term abortions that dr. tiller performs.. why not wait a few months.. give birth to your healthy baby and let a couple who wants that child raise him/her. This is what I am personally trying to understand.

  • Pat

    jag,

    Placing a baby for adoption is not “just giving the baby away”. It is “just” giving the baby a LIFE, rather than over to a heartless, mercenary killer. And, for the record, there are well-qualified couples waiting to adopt every category of ‘special needs’ baby there is…as well as an arrangement called “open adoption”.
    The circumstances under which a child is conceived do not mitigate the myriad physical risks of abortion, especially late-term, to mothers. It would still have been less dangerous to you to have the baby, and then kill him/her…and better for you both for you to have the baby and give him/her the best home you could, whether adopted or not.

    Please give up defending Tiller everytime you turn around. Everytime you praise or defend your baby’s killer, you affirm the murder of the little boy for whom you say you’ve wept bitter tears. This can only harden you and further alienate you from life, and embed your grief so deep that you won’t be able to process it.

    “He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.”

    While I don’t have any reason whatever to think that Tiller & co. give a rat’s behind about this, some of us do, and know that your future will be brighter if your heart is not schized or stoned by these games-er, “coping mechanisms.”

    All the best…

  • page turner

    A note for those interested in confirmation of left-leaning media bias, Bernard Goldberg’s book “Bias” and Ann Coulter’s book “Slander” are excellent.

    Websites fightthebias.com and anncoulter.com are good internet sources…read it & reap the blessings of a restored perspective!

  • dp

    jag – sounds like mom and dad had alot to do with your “decision”.

    I had a friend in school who didn’t tell her parents she was pregnant until she was about as far along as you were…did her parents make her fly to Kansas.. no, she gave her baby up for adoption… she doesn’t remember anything about the labor and delivery, the doctors gave her something to where she wouldn’t remember it. She never saw her child, but she knows she give him, yes it was a boy, LIFE! She now has two more children and the boy she gave up for adoption is 16 years old now. BTW, she was only 15. I just wonder if your parents felt necessary for you to abort because you were raped. You were an innocent victim… so was your child… BTW, I also had a friend in HS who was conceived by rape…she is actually bi-racial.. she is just fine and has a family of her own. Again, what is done is done…

    You know JAG – I just may be wrong – but reading between the lines, you were obviously convinced by other people that your abortion was okay and justified. And that’s ok, you were young and maybe felt you had no other choice… but you did and unfortunately the adults in your life including Dr. Tiller convinced you otherwise and to this day… you still believe them.

    I did read your post where you said (on another topic) that you wouldn’t do it again…even under the same circumstances of rape… is that because you are older now? Is that because you feel that it was wrong?

    Again, I am so sorry for what you went through. I wish that no other 16 year old would have to go through that… that is the reason abortion like what Dr. Tiller does should be against the law… not legal. Looks like to me, since you say your four days where hard.. you would feel the same… looks like you would stand up and say hey, it’s bad.. don’t do it…

    Page – I will check out the web site that you posted.

  • just a girl

    dp,
    my parents did have a lot to do with my decision, but before i even told them i did attempt to have an abortion in new york state.i live in pennsylvania and the abortion laws here are much stricter.the clinic i found in the phone book advertised that there was no parental consent and that they would do it up to 24 weeks.
    when i was told that i was about 27 weeks, i felt numb and i took the paper with dr. tiller’s info on it and went home.it took me 3 days to tell my mom & at first, she wanted me to keep the baby.but when she told my dad, he really pushed for me to have the abortion and eventaully she sided with him.that’s when it seems like everything happened so fast.i remember on my first trip to the clinic that there were people outside and they had signs with a fetus in its mothers womb that said “mommy, please don’t kill me” and looking at that upset me, so i turned away, but once i talked to the counselor and dr. tiller, i was sure that i was making the right choice.
    i wish that they could have given some type of drug so that i wouldn’t remember it.the abortion itself was the most physically painful thing i have ever gone through and dr. tiller would not give me any painkillersbecause he thought they might harm me.he was so professional and so kind to me throughout the abortion, he said that he knows it’s the most heartbreaking decision to have to make and it is.
    i would not do it again because i am older and because i would know that it’s not the instant fix i once thought it was, but i would not change what i did.i did the best i could with the knowledge i had at that time.i know that the emotional price is not one that i would be willing to pay again, but dr. tiller gave me my life & my freedom back, and for that i am grateful.if it hadn’t been for him, i would have had to go into a back alley somewhere.as one of the healing steps, we were supposed to write a letter to ourselves about all we can accomplish and do with our lives now that he has given us the a new chance to do that.i did accomplish a lot and i am only 26 years old.

  • jerry

    JAG

    it is so sad that you remain so uninformed.

    you claim to be against abortion as birth control.

    98% of abortions are for birth control.

    i will never understand people who hold passionate views on subjects they know little or nothing about, though in your case you’re obviously biased by the distorted view you have of your own experience….

  • tony

    just a girl

    your comment “if it hadn’t been for him, i would have had to go into a back alley somewhere” is so empty and void of intelligent thought… how sad that you have learned next to nothing at the price of your child’s life.

    you could have chosen adoption, among other things. but your one-track mind simply justifies abortion no matter what, and you refuse to consider your child or the many childless couples who would’ve done anything to have a little baby to love and raise – you only thought of yourself, and sadly, nothing has changed. it’s still all about you and what you wanted, and good ol’ tiller who was there to take your money and do the dirty work.

  • just a girl

    tony,
    i cry for my son every day and i have said repeatedly that i would NOT have another abortion.

  • dp

    Just a girl – I hate to inform you… but you didn’t make a choice for yourself… your parents did.

    No you wouldn’t have went to the “back alley” because… your mother wanted to keep the baby… it would have been illegal for you to have an abortion… and dad probably would have kept his mouth shut..just my opinion from personal experience.

    Also, if you would have went to an OB – found a family for your child – got pre-natal care – given birth in a hospital (which by the way, you did give birth didn’t you, just to a smaller than full term and dead child) in the hospital you would have had an excellent anesthesiologist to give you an epidural, you could have had painkillers, because not all are bad for the baby.

    Now, in my opinion, not giving you painkillers for fear of hurting you is absurb! There are many painkillers that are safe and there was no worry about the baby because well… sounds to me that Dr. Tiller didn’t want to spend the money on painkillers for you because that would have been more out of his pocket. Totally absurb! There is no excuse for anyone to be in pain. To tell you that he was worried about you being harmed…well, how professional!

    To be honest, the more you tell us about your experience the more we understand just how Dr. Tiller works…I own my own business and I have been crooked by some of the most “professional” people you have every met. Anyone can be professtional in any situtation.

    If Dr. Tiller was so “sincere”… why doesn’t he staff an anesthesiologist to relieve pain? If he does, then correct me if I am wrong… anyone? JAG – you got clinic care, that’s exactly what you got. Dr. Tillers facility should have to adhere to standards just like a hospital…in fact ALL abortion clinic should have to adhere to standards of a hospital. This is so horrible.

  • just a girl

    dp,
    what’s an OB?before my mom told my dad, she had told me that she wanted to keep the baby and he just wiuld not hear of it.my dad cited all of things that would make it “stupid” for me to have the child-i was 16, had no job,he said i would have to quit school, and by the end of his lecture, my mom sided with him.
    dr. tiller told us that everything was included in the cost of the abortionand that what he was going to do to me would gently produce a “miscarriage”..and you are correct, i did have to give birth, i had to go through the whole labor and delivery process.and once they put the iv’s in and gave me the drugs to induce my labor, i thought i was going to die.but the worst parts cams after that..when i went in to see him, i was crying and he told me not to scream because i’d scare the other patients and that is whn i begged him for a painkiller.he said that the painkiller would hurt me and he wasn’t going to take that chance.
    i am sorry if my experience sounds awful to you, but i am just telling you the truth about my experience.i don’t think any woman “wants” to find herself in any situation where she must choose to have an abortion.that was the absolute darkest time in my life and it’s nothing i would ever wish on anyone, but dr. tiller was compassionate and i truly think that he did act in my best interest.he hs always said that the woman is his patient and he is a doctor and if he thought that a painkiller wouldn’t have hurt me, he would have given me one.he said he doesn’t have a staff anesthesiologist because he said any type of anesthesia or painkiller increases the chance that a woman will have complications.

  • just a girl

    also, my parents had asked him why there was no anesthesiologist on his staff and that’s when he said that any type of anesthesia or painkiller would increase the risk of comlications for a woman-especially a teenage girl.and all things included, my parents paid $5000.00 for that abortion.if they had waited any longer to take me, the cost would have risen to $6000.00 or
    $7000.00.that’s why dr. tiller wanted me on a plane as soon as possible.

  • EV

    This is very sad. This woman who died from complications following the abortion was said to be “Developmentally disabled”. I am guessing she had no idea what an abortion was. And my guess is that she was forced into it. TWO lives are gone because of this Dr. I doubt the woman was given a list of medical complications that would possibly happen because that’s the sort of thing that Planned Parenthood COVERS UP.

    I wouldn’t trust the so called “birth control” that they gave you after the abortion, just a girl. I’ve read that its just a “sugar pill”. Planned Parenthood is in the business of making money, they don’t care about the woman at all (they lie saying its “just a blob of tissue” or “just a blood clot” or “not developed yet”. I mourn for your baby. Your child could have been adopted AND loved.

  • just a girl

    ev,
    dr. tiller said that i had to take the pill for one month after the procedure to get my system back to normal.i also was told not to cross my legs because that would increase the likelihood of a blood clot.when you say sugar pill, what do you mean?
    i mourn and cry for my son everyday.it took me along time to even be able to talk about it.after my abortion, dr. tiller set up one and five week check ups for me at my local planned parenthood.and for a kind as dr. tiller was to me was as rude as planned parenthood was to me.i refused to go back to them for the five week check up.

  • anthony

    just a girl

    your quote above “…where she must choose to have an abortion.that was the absolute darkest time in my life and it’s nothing i would ever wish on anyone, but dr. tiller was compassionate and i truly think that he did act in my best interest.he hs always said that the woman is his patient and he is a doctor….” needs to be addressed.

    first of all, no one MUST choose abortion. this is the delusion you’ve bought into, and it comes out in the way you express yourself. that it HAD to happen. it didn’t.

    secondly, tiller is compassionate in the way that an actor playing a role is compassionate. it’s all for show, and has everything to do with the addition to his bank account. the only thing he’s sincere about is making sure the check clears the bank.

    thirdly, he did NOT act in your best interest, any more than a mafia hit man acts in the best interest of the one of hires him. because a genuine doctor would have the best interest of BOTH patients in mind, mother and child. go back and read the hippocratic oath which all doctors took prior to the obscenity of roe v wade – it specifically says that the doctor will do nothing to cause an abortion. that is true medicine, with the focus on healing and life saving techniques. abortion is a violation of all that medicine is about. what tiller does is an abomination, and a perversion of real medicine.

    the reason it was the darkest time of your life is because you (or your parents, if you will) did business with the dark side of humanity, and your conscience is telling you that whenever you refer to it in those terms. but one minute it was a horrible experience and you wouldn’t do it again, and the next minute it was the right thing to do and tiller was your ‘savior’. i urge you to seek genuine, real counseling with a crisis pregnancy center.

    by the way, tiller in contrast with PP, in the way you were treated, is easily explained. tiller got paid a large sum of money to do what he did to you, and PP did not. tiller is used to acting the part of a compassionate man when there are dollar signs involved. a cpc, on the other hand, helps women free of charge and does so in a caring, TRULY compassionate way, with no strings attached. you have accepted the lies and darkness of the abortion industry, but i urge you to seek the light.

  • just a girl

    anthony,
    i had counseling at dr. tiller’s clinic before, during, and after my abortion.

  • ev

    did dr. tiller’s “counseler” tell you that you had other options? like adoption and raising the baby yourself? my guess is not. There are a lot of organizations that help women in crisis pregnancies. I donated some baby items right before Christmas so a woman who kept her baby could have some items to help her out.

    If you’re still struggling, I urge you to contact Project Rachel. Its a post abortion healing organization.

    I mourn for your son who didn’t get the chance to smile.

  • just a girl

    ev,
    at dr. tiller’s clinic, we never really talked about other options.except for one time-after the procedure had already been started, dr. tiller came to me with a form that he needed me to fill out.it asked for the specific reason the pregnancy was being terminated and he said that for his records, i had to fill in why adoption was not an option for me.he told me that if i wrote “maternal mental health, child was conceived by rape “and that i did not feel i could go through the birth process without adverse mental health effects that that would be sufficient.he convinced me that abortion was the responsible, loving thing to do and he treated me with the utmost in care at every point during the procedure.he also assured me that my baby felt no pain, the heart was stopped with an injection before the procedure even began.he said that grief is normal and that each woman processes it differently.i had my son’s ashes blessed there and i talked to the minister.

  • LET GO & LET GOD!

    “Now depression’s not a million laughs, but suicide’s too dangerous; don’t go leapin’ out of buildings in the middle of the night! It’s not the fall, but landing, that will alter social standing; so go first and ask the Father, and I’m sure He’ll tell you right”…(apologies to Andy M. Stewart)

    While life can be quite complex at times, some things really are not complicated. Child-killing (a.k.a. induced abortion) is not a medical procedure. While it does utilize medical knowledge and equipment, it does not prevent, cure, or otherwise treat any real disease. Call it “choice” or face it as murder, the one thing it is NOT is “health care”.

    Abortionists are to the medical profession what the 9-11 skyjackers were to the airline travel industry. The 9-11 terrorists abused pilot’s licenses in order to gain access to and destroy innocent human life; abortionists abuse medical licenses (those that even have them; not all do) for that exact same purpose.

    jade(d), jag, (& a few others), your die-hard defense of Tiller reminds me so much of a story I heard once about a man clinging with all his might to a window ledge, certain that if he ever let go, he would fall to his death. Eventually, of course, his strength gave out and he could hold on no longer. When he fell, he was somewhat chagrined but relieved to find that it was really a safely short drop, that the ground was quite soft beneath him, and that the fall, rather than harming him, gave him a much more free & interesting life than clinging to the window ledge.

    You are clinging your praise & defense of this bloodthirsty excuse for a doctor, thinking that thus salving your consciences and avoiding the wounds & grief entailed will somehow save and enhance your life. Forget his euphemistic words and demeanor; LET GO. Tiller got what he wanted (a dead baby and a fat check) and has moved on.
    You talk about how sympathetic he is; let me assure you, HE has never shed the first tear for any of the children he has killed.

    As has already been pointed out,

    “HE THAT COVERETH HIS SINS SHALL NOT PROSPER: BUT WHOSO CONFESSETH AND FORSAKETH THEM SHALL HAVE MERCY.” (this includes “she”s…!!!)

    This incessant cataloging of Tiller’s charms (some would, just as accurately, call them “wiles”) is another covering for the sins he — and, in him, you — committed against innocent children. LET GO. You will find in the mercy of God more life and real liberty than Tiller can even think of offering to anyone, even his pet charity, himself.

  • ev

    I bet your son would have been loved NO MATTER the circumstances of his conception. I would think the abortion would be worse than the rape itself.

    Dr Tiller doesn’t care about anything but MONEY. Your son could have been adopted by a loving couple that wouldn’t have cared if he had purple hair when he grew up. He would have been their son.

    A professional doctor would have given pain killers to his patient.

  • just a girl

    dr. tiller did not give me pain meds because it would have incresed my risks for complications.

  • dp

    Just A girl – He didn’t give you painkillers because if you had a “complication” , you could have sued him… do you not see? Everything that you have said about your experience is all about “saving Dr. Tiller”… It’s called “covering you A double S”

    I want to make a note here for everyone – this is my opinion – Just A girl did not choose abortion… it’s so obvious that her parents did it for her.

    However, JAG – you remain faithful to your parents’ decision for some reason…

    Now, wouldn’t you think if Dr.Tiller REALLY cared about the women and girls who come to him… he would counsel you on ALL your options?

  • just a girl

    dp,
    you are right in saying that my parents had a lot to do with my decision, but they weren’t completely responsible.i had some input, but my dad was telling that i would be “stupid” to think i could have a baby at that time..and when i got to the clinic and spoke with them, they really drove my dad’s points into me…and i could have left, but dr. tiller said that if i left and changed my mind, i would have to wait another week and it would just end up costing my parents more, so i chose to stay.
    and, before dr. tiller ever touched me, me and my parents both had to sign & initial a form that detailed all that could go wrong.he said that the procedure was safer than actual childbirth.it was a very hard thing to do and it is not something that i ever want to do again, but dr. tiller did everything he could to make sure that i had no problems, even to the point of setting up the 1 and 5 week exams at planned parenthood.now the people at planned parenthood were really mean and condescending-to the point where i refused to go back for the 5 week exam, but i have nothing but respect for how dr. tiller & his staff treated me.it was a hard decision made from a really bad circumstance & now i do realize that there is more than one option out there, but all in all i don’t regret my decision and i could not have asked for a better dr. than dr. tiller..and even if i did regret my choice, it would not change the fact that i must live with it every day.i have cried for my son every day since then and i would be lying if i said that i don’t wonder what the outcome of a different option would have been, but i still think i did what was best for me.

  • Pat

    jag

    Birds of a feather flock together.

  • just a girl

    pat,
    i don’t quite understand what you mean..please clarify..

  • anthony

    jag

    i think what pat meant is that people who choose death for their babies (and refuse to see how wrong it was, even years later), and people who make money doing the killing have much in common. since you have such a need to come on this site (where people are well acquainted with the massive amount of blood that george tiller has spilled, and the massive amount of money he’s made doing it), and defend the indefensible, it’s hard to argue with pat’s assertion.

    i urge you to seek genuine counseling from truly caring people, such as you will find at your local crisis pregnancy center.

  • anthony

    just a girl

    george tiller is not a great man. if he is, then any sleazy, two-bit hit man is a great man.
    he doesn’t care about his “patients”. as i’ve already pointed out to you, the child you were carrying was just as much a patient as you were.
    that is, when under the care of a real physician, which you were NOT.

    i hope someday you discover what a truly great man is, and you won’t find him working at a death center, taking thousands of dollars for slaughtering innocent children in cold blood, and tossing their broken bodies into an incinerator.
    your definition of “great” is nothing short of sick.

    also, “reproductive rights”, by definition, means “the right to reproduce”. no one has ever threatened a woman’s right to reproduce.

    people who have a conscience and a heart however, will eventually come to the conclusion that killing a child in cold blood is wrong. i’m sorry you still haven’t figured that out. how sad.

  • Pat

    anthony

    close enough (to what I meant) to call,

  • ryan

    JAG:

    I don’t usually go off like this, but you make me sick. You and Tiller murdered a perfectly healthy and probably viable baby.

    I hope you both rot in hell.

  • just a girl

    Ryan,
    I don’t post here much anymore, but I have to address you.Don’t you EVER presume to know what I went through at Dr. Tiller’s clinic.YOU make me sick because you do not understand or make any effort to understand what it is like to be a teenage girl in that situation.Since this particular thread, I have come to realize a few things and having that abortion was the hardest thing I have ever done.Until you have walked in my shoes, please don’t ever judge me.The abortion industry is exactly that-an industry, whose wheels were set in motion long before I ever walked through that door.I only wish I had known ORW at that time.

  • I think doctors were very much responsible for the death of infant baby.

  • cc

    I think abortion is wrong in any situation. Your killing an inocent baby there your flesh and blood.

  • babyluv

    just a girl,
    I feel deeply sorry for your loss. I also am saddened to say that I too have dealt with some sort of an abortion…miscarisge at the tender age of 17. I understand your hurt and your need to defend your doctor and family’s decision. However I have to say that the mourning of your child is not only because he was yours and because he it no longer but also because of some sort of guilt. the reason you would never do this again is because your are somewhat sorry you went through with the procedure. Your doctor, although he seemed as if he meant well…didn’t and deep down you know that. Admitting that is obviously hard but needed. I am sure that if you had that child and took a break from schol rather than quitting (like some of my friends did and MY mom) would have strengthened you in many of ways. You are so right…you’re just a girl that was influenceed into making a very harsh, rash, and quick decision that my coat you some of your life’s greatest memories. I still think of what could have been if i had my twins …yes i lost twins not to outright abortion but to a miscarriage. It was terrifying and painful and i would imagine that your experience was just as terrible if not worse because deep down you wanted that baby. just by the way how you explained the hurt and the teas shed for this baby that lay there in front of you. i truly understand and i hope that you live to one day have a baby that you can keep no matter of how it was concieved especially because God has a plan for all life…even yours. and no matter what although this life was taken away from you one will come that will outdo and achieve great!! By the way God loves you and forgives you of this and as for that doctor… he’ll have his time where he’ll have to tell GOd exactly why he persuaded you and alot of other young women from allowing they’re children from doing great things in this world. anyway love ya and God does too