Victim of Jan. 13 botched abortion died.
OR says Gov. Sebelius is to blame and calls for the suspension of Tiller’s license.
Wichita, KS — Operation Rescue received information from two independent sources that a patient of abortionist George Tiller has died. The woman was transported by ambulance from the abortion clinic owned by late-term abortionist George Tiller to Wesley Medical Center on January 13. Operation Rescue broke the story immediately with pictures and video (see link). Operation Rescue has worked with both of the anonymous sources before and found them to be reliable and credible.
According to one insider, Tiller’s patient arrived at the hospital with “severe hemorrhaging” and died “a few days later” from undetermined causes but the source said, “are very likely to be the result of a botched abortion.” According to 911 transcripts, the ambulance was requested by Tiller office worker Marguerite Reed, who according to 911 dispatch records was being “very evasive” and “refused to give any information about the patient.” The ambulance sped to Wesley Hospital, with sirens and lights.
Operation Rescue staffers at the scene witnessed both the arrival of the ambulance and abortionist George Tiller at Wesley Hospital. The eyewitnesses said it was obvious “something was desperately wrong because of the grim and worried demeanor of the EMTs working frantically to save the woman’s life.”
One key inside source said the woman arrived in “bad shape” and was “horrified at her condition.”
This is the fourth documented ambulance run from Tillers abortion mill to Wesley Hospital in the last 13 months. (June 04, Sept. 04, Jan. 05)
“I question the judgment of Governor Sebelius in vetoing the clinic regulation act. That statue could very well have prevented this needless and tragic death. Our prayer of concern and sympathy go out to the family and loved ones for the untimely death of mother and child.” -Troy Newman, president, Operation Rescue
“We call upon the Kansas Board of Healing Arts, which is overseen by the Governor’s office, to quickly investigate this tragic and needless death, and, in the interest of public safety, to suspend the medical license of George Tiller until a full investigation is complete.” -Cheryl Sullenger, Operation Rescue Outreach Coordinator
This gives new meaning to the nickname “Tiller the Killer.” I pray for justice.
We must ask ourselves – again and again – would this tragedy have occurred if the mother had been hospitalized – with an ASSEMBLY of physicians attending her with diligence and the highest level of skill available?
Further, fractions of a second can mean the difference between life and death during medical emergencies. It is indeed a rare occurrence in our modern world that a woman dies in childbirth. These calamities do occur, however – and when they do occur, the woman and child deserve the utmost in meticulous concern and compassion. If death is inevitable, it shouldn’t be occurring in a damnable “abortion mill” – that is just downright obscene. There is only so much EMTs can do, although I am sure that the individuals in this case put forth every effort to save the mother’s life here.
Last but certainly not least, if anyone was being “evasive” – then that is criminal negligence. If someone’s life is in danger, furtiveness isn’t called for – the highest level of clarity is required.
I sincerely hope and pray that Governor Sebelius will give this matter the gravity it deserves – immediately.
You claim that the victim ‘most likely died of a botched abortion’…However tthat may not be true. George Tiller is a specialized doctor, I’m sure he didn’t make any mistake. Just so you know, this news hasn’t been published in any newpapers. If you search any news search engine, the only place to have documeted this even is “The Conservative Voice” I’m sure they’re telling the truth. Dr. Tiller performs other medical operations for women, not only abortion. There really is not really concrete proof to say that this women, (that is, if she really died), died of a botched abortion…
With reference to the above quote, being a specialized doctor does NOT mean one doesn’t make mistakes. I would never trust a doctor, or anyone for that metter, that claims to not make mistakes. And, Tiller is not a specialized doctor, he is a family practicioner, which is a general doctor, not a specialist.
Why else besides a bothced abortion would one go away from an abortion mill in an ambulance. I guess she could have had an unrelated heart attack, but really….
Steven
Stephen,
One does not “severely hemorrhage” from a heart attack.
Anyone who gets an abortion knows that a consequence is death. When a mother’s child is ripped out of her womb and murdered, the mother can also die of hemorrhaging. Tiller, like any other abortionist, probably has everyone in for killing their babies sign papers acknowledging there are risks involved in having an abortion.
The unsettling perception about abortion clinics such as Tiller’s is that the doctors could care less if the mothers die, verses typical doctors in hospitals, who have compassion instilled in them and believe in saving lives.
Whether the doctors in the hospital made every effort to save the woman’s life or not does not make an impact on what this matter is about. Any good person who has just seen a woman murder her child would be taken back after seen a bloody womb, minus the dead baby. It must have been a horrendous sight and the doctors had to think fast to save her life, on top of knowing that she is a murderer. They must naturally treat her differently than someone who say was in a car accident, because the woman was a fool for putting her life on the line besides killing her own child. It is difficult to have respect and compassion for someone who just moments ago murdered her child. Someone would think, “How could she do this?” and “Why did she commit this horrifying act of killing her own flesh and blood?” To put these shocking thoughts on hold and then try to help a woman who did this would be a task for any good person. They naturally would also wonder where her baby is, and want to save the baby as well. All this takes time in the doctors minds, to think about everything and absorb the fact that the baby is most likely already dead, and that the mother is to blame. The doctors would most likely want to talk to the abortionist, but then the doctors would again have to stop and think about the repulsive fact that the abortionist is an abomination to doctors. An abortionist is a doctor who gets away with murdering people every hour of every day, and that is a total infraction of what the doctors’ environment is about. Essentially, when anyone from an abortion clinic steps into a hospital, they are morally and physically infesting it.
Sometimes there isn’t enough time to save someone’s life, especially faced with a moral issue. The majority of doctors are who they are because they have a calling to help people. They are kind, compassionate, and have a gift of healing. When they see a woman come to them for help, it should be because the woman was hurting from an act done unto her, not an act she did unto someone else, and becoming injured in the process. However, the doctors, compassionate as they are, must change their mindset from hurt and angry for what she did, to helping her immediately, for they are not her judges. Doctors are wise, and they know that life is precious, and they know that life must not be toyed with. They work for God, and they are the link between God and us, just as someone walking down the street, who helps someone in need, is a link between God and people. We all have a place in this world; it is those who choose to go astray from God’s plan who falter. Abortion doctors are not tied into any links by God. They are corrupt and they cause destruction. They try to break the links God has created for us, which then cause turmoil. Sometimes we are only faced with going directly to God by our faith we have in Him, to help us through our crisis; when people who don’t believe in love and God cause havoc for us in specific times of destruction that they have attempted to set upon us. This will only make us stronger, when we are forced to use what means we have to go to God in a crisis, we have ourselves.
Anyone who underestimates the power God has given a doctor, does not have his own strength to realize that the doctor is our link to life. Faith alone can save you, but when God gives you a doctor to save your life, trust in Him. If you don’t, it is then that you may die.
This should be an example for all who seek to murder their unborn child. If you take a knife to your body, you can die. Any abortionist who has committed murder to countless babies and has gotten real well at it, sure has got to be experienced. But we are talking about abortion. Not simple surgery to fix an ankle or stomach injury. We are talking about doing something unnatural and unthinkable. Anything done that isn’t good can result in something even worse. I am sure the mother was horrified as she was taken to the hospital. She was probably bleeding so badly, that she was horrified. Really she was feeling what it was like to die, as her baby did. She killed her baby, and she killed herself in the process. The difference between her death and her baby’s death though, was that her baby died in torturous pain, and she most likely had been drugged so she didn’t have to feel her pain. The only pain she felt was that she had just committed a sin and she was afraid to meet God and explain herself to Him. She probably wanted pity as well, by the doctors who tried to save her. “Innocent me”, she probably yelled. “Save innocent me!”
The time she had to repent was minuscule, but I believe she could have been saved and survived God’s wrath.
We are precious. Everyone around us is precious; everyone has a right to live. Love, don’t kill. When you kill, you hate; so love, and you shall be loved. The only condition to God loving you is that you love. If you don’t love, you don’t have love; and God only knows love. Don’t be unknown to God. Find love inside you and show God you have it. Be a good example to what love is. Be love and love all.
Mary Ann Nalbone
I feel it is unfair to assume that this was because of a “botched abortion”. As im sure you all know I think very highly of Dr, Tiller and his associates. With any kind of surgery there is risk. My sister hemmoraged when she had her tonsils out. It was the way her body reacted. And I hate to break it to you but the patient would of signed an informed consent, that says she understands that death may occur allong with a list of other complications that may or may not occur, and womens helath center and or Dr Tiller are not liable.
Ya’ll would blame Dr Tiller for World Hunger if you could. Leave him alone.
Ms. Nalbone:
“Be love and love all?” You showed precious little of it to the woman who recently died. The overweening authority with which you speak of this woman – and by extension, all of us who are post-abortive – doesn’t really sit all that well with me in the wake of this latest tragedy.
You have the nerve to say that, had my first-trimester procedure been “botched” so many years ago – that the doctors should have treated me differently? (If you didn’t say this directly, if was certainly implied, ma’am.)
All this considered, you sound far more severe than my own confessor, Ms. Nalbone – and that’s just downright icky in my view.
Let us condemn the evil(s) of abortion, certainly. Let us work diligently to eradicate this canker from our society, to be sure. ORW deserves respect for bringing this matter to the attention of Governor Sebelius.
Your self-righteous rant does little to mitigate the tragedy of January 13. Not only that, it just sort of rubs me the wrong way on top of it all……
This is awful! Not only justice needs to be served but all abortionists especially those doing late-term abortions needs to be given life sentences in prison. The KS Governor is listening with deaf ears on this doctor who butchers women as well as unborn babies.
jade
we understand that if tiller had a fan club, you’d be the president, but aren’t you even the least bit bothered by all the other cases of botched abortions nationwide?
many of those abortions have resulted in death for the woman, sterility, perforated uteruses, etc…. not to mention the horrendous cost in emotional damage to millions of women.
in my view, you are demonstrating an enormous case of spiritual blindness, as you cheer for someone who kills babies for a living. tiller’s work is shameful and godless, and if you stop for a minute and just allow a bit of sunshine into your thought process, you’ll recognize that.
Songbird, you show little compassion for those innumerable babies who have died at the hands of their mothers and abortionists. Anyone who has had an abortion needs to repent, and they are lucky that God has spared them as far as they have been. My words compared to God’s power are a fraction of what this is about. You should listen to what I say and repent, for that is all you have. You have already committed a horrible crime of murder, now if you want to be saved, you must repent and help to prevent others from doing the same thing.
I was speaking on behalf of those who are murdered innocently. When you have an abortion, you know that you are risking your life to do so.
I realize that what I said was harsh, but this topic needs to be dealt with harshly. There is nothing nice about what happened to the death of the innocent baby. Many people are only seeing that this has affected the mother; obviously in a world where killing your unborn baby is legal, people suddenly feel empathy towards the mother if she is injured in any way, from the after math that she has just created towards her own baby. But really we are just seeing an abortion not going as well as the abortionist, or anyone who believes in them, has planned. A baby is dead now, that is what matters most of all.
Operation Rescue workers felt badly for the mother as they saw her being rushed to the hospital. They know what abortion is capable of havocking. I feel badly for anyone who goes through any suffering. But what I was explaining in my previous letter was that God does not accept abortion, and when you cross the line and sin against God, you are on your own, until you see that you have sinned. That is why I also said that the mother had time to repent, and she may have been fortunate for those few minutes she did have before she died. Whether or not she utilized those last minutes of her life to save herself, is contingent on whether or not she repented. God gave her a chance to repent.
Songbird, you are my neighbor and I value who you are today. You have interesting points that you make in your comments frequently.
When you murdered your baby you committed a sin, and I pray that you are spared for such a hideous crime, if you are sorry in your soul for your sin. If you are sorry, then you can use what you have today, to fight for something good that you did wrong in the past. By you questioning me, it sounds like you are not sorry for your sin. Do not blame me for a sin that you have committed. I will pray that you gain strength from God, and that you find a way to receive God’s forgiveness and move on in your life. If you find God’s light, then you can join the fight against abortion. You can fight it full force, not half way. It is ok to be in the category of pro-life, even though you were not pro-life at one time. We want you as a part of us. We will not judge you. Identify your wrong-doing and move on.
In my letter I was referring to those who are considering abortion, and I will do what I can, by God’s guidance, to prevent abortions, through my words and experiences.
Anyone who has negative responses is just venting their opinions, and that means nothing to me when my purpose is to help women choose the decision to say yes to preserve their babies’ lives.
Jade, anyone can hemorrhage for any reason. You can be looking out a window and your brain could hemorrhage. That has nothing to do with what Tiller has done while performing an abortion. This has to do with ripping out a baby from his/her mother’s womb, and the mother bleeding to death. It happens sometimes in abortions. Having an abortion is medically risky, especially if you have them over an over.
If you think highly of Doctor Tiller, then you are joining him in the world of evil. That is your prerogative. I think highly of Operation Rescue and their mission: to save unborn children and prevent them from being massacred.
As I stated in my previous letter, I am sure patients sign forms knowing there are risks. But there is something called malpractice and an abortionist can be sued committing it. I don’t care if anyone sues Tiller though, because he is a piece of dirt waiting to be carried away in the wind of darkness.
We would not blame Tiller of world hunger if we could. The devil already has enough work for him to do, and that is killing babies. That is enough to blame him for.
Songbird, I don’t care if I rubbed you the wrong way. I don’t care if you feel “icky” by my words. I don’t care if my words “rubbed you the wrong way” along with other post-abortive women.
You should be concerned with saving the babies whose fates sit at the hands of the abortionists who kill them and get away with it. “Post-abortive women” is no such thing. What you really mean is post-murder.
I would rather feel “icky” and be alive than die at the hands of killers as an innocent person. Your baby felt more than icky when he/she died. He/she felt tortured and betrayed.
Mary Ann
You can also bleed to death from a simple apendectomy, when your apendix is ripped from your body! Good greif get a life will you. Who are you to judge and say tiller will be sent to hell? Are you God? Can you make that decision? Are you even worthy of making that decision for him? NO your not. all you are doing is passing judgment on another human being, Another human being who might I add you know nothing about other then his profesion.Have you ever met this wonderful man? NO im sure you havent.
Ms. Nalbone:
Evidently, your reading skills match your capacities for human and Christlike compassion. Did I not mention my confessor, Ms. Nalbone? Obviously, I DID confess – 27 years ago last month, as a matter of fact. What in the hellola right do YOU have – as a sinner yourself – to sit in judgment of me? None whatsoever, according to scripture. I do not know if you are familiar with Roman Catholicism – but if you are, you should probably repent of your own sin here – the sin of self-righteousness and cruelty. Oh, and you may wish to toss “woeful inability to read” into your litany of transgressions.
Where did I ever convey (and where have I EVER conveyed) a lack of sorrow for all victims of abortions? Cite the case! However, as a post-abortive woman (yes, I am using that term – I do not accept your authority to dictate my semantics on this issue) – I am compelled to humility and compassion. Evidently, you are sinless. If that is the case, then you should probably give God the glory for your stainlessness – and exude a degree of discretion in your angry rants.
I do not care whether you consider me “one of you.” I consider myself a pro-life constituent – of those who exhibit Christlike virtues of mercy, compassion, humanity and shared sinfulness. Have you ever read the works of Father Frank Pavone, Ms. Nalbone? Your sophomoric accusations pale in comparison….. (You may also wish to consider the following: a fair number of current pro-life individuals are post-abortive themselves. Discount – and disenfranchise – these individuals, and our ranks will be quite thin, of that I am quite sure.)
As you can see, Ms. Nalbone, I am wholly capable in defending myself and others who have walked in my shoes. I am not, obviously, someone who has never sinned. Thus, I guess I cannot relate to someone like yourself – someone whose so-called “purity” evidently allows for cruelty and condemnation – and allows them to sleep at night after engaging in these frailties.
Finally, let us not forget the words of Pope John Paul II, Father Pavone, and my own confessor: “Post-abortive women do not need further agony – what they need is God’s mercy.” To be sure, I had to repent to receive that mercy, Ms. Nalbone – and it isn’t up to you to dictate my conscience. (Oh, and shame on you for attempting to do so.)
“You have the nerve to say that, had my first-trimester procedure been “botched” so many years ago – that the doctors should have treated me differently? (If you didn’t say this directly, if was certainly implied, ma’am.) ”
Songbird:
I said that doctors naturally are faced with the unsettling thought that a baby has just died at the hands of his/her mother is now pleading for her own life.
I then said that the doctors, because they are compassionate, would do all they could to save the woman. The doctors are not judges, and they would not intentionally let the woman die, even if they were allowed to do so, because they know that it would be an act of negligent homicide, and that is murder.
Legally doctors are not allowed to let someone die, in any case. I am sure everyone knows this, but some people may think that the doctors find a way secretly to let someone die. That would be almost impossible to do, considering it would be too risky for them and they could face a malpractice suit. An autopsy would be performed, and it would show the cause of death (not giving the proper medication, the amount of it, etc). Doctors would not risk this; they could lose everything, and possibly become incarcerated. Also, there is a team of doctors in the room when a patient is being treated, and to get someone to do something unethical would not work.
But as I said in the beginning, a typical doctor would not let someone die even if they legally could. They are compassionate, and they want to save everyone.
I only said that a doctor might be caught off guard considering all of the circumstances I previously mentioned. That would not hinder him from knowing he had a job of saving a life. It may cloud his vision and thoughts for a moment, but he would get back on track and do the job he knows.
Jade, You are the one who said you could bleed from your tonsils. Stop giving examples that have nothing to do with this topic, and start facing the truth. I am speaking on behalf of the murdered babies. I have never met Tiller but if he is a man who kills babies, then he is committing a sin. “Though shall not kill.” God is against murder and He says that is someone murders, then they will face a consequence. I am not judging, I am stating the truth.
Go to church and learn how to love.
Mary Ann Nalbone
“God is against murder and He says that is someone murders, then they will face a consequence”
Let that be gods decision not the decision of the oh so holy mary ann. You asked me to stop giving examples of other simple procedures that can result in severe hemmoraging..why is this mary ann? Because Im right, Because it makes sence? I do got to Church thank you very much. For somone who claims not to make assumptions, and to only state facts, That my dear was an awfully bold assumption! God has taught me to love and to FORGIVE! Also mary ann my dear… the statement ” Go to Church and Learn how to love” speaks volumes about you. You dont need to go to church to learn how to love, God lives in our hearts, no matter where we are! I feel sorry for you mary ann I really do.
Songbird, Evidently, your moral skills match your capability to learn how to love innocent people.
You listen to the pope, yet you think I am judging you when I say to repent. Ok, don’t repent, I don’t want to help you anymore. The pope is a person, and he is not God. Everyone is equal, and your neighbors are capable of helping you in times of need.
Find your own help. I offered to help you, I offered to give you needed advice, and you lashed out at me. You are on your own now.
If I didn’t care about you, I would have just said that there is no hope for you. But I did care, and I was trying to help you see that unborn babies should be cherished and protected. I was trying to get the word out to you that you should love your neighbors, not criticize and degrade them.
If you were pro-life, you would say no to killing babies and be not so tolerable of mothers who kill their babies. They don’t deserve pity when they are out to get rid of their child. They don’t pity their child when he/she is being tortured to death.
Mary Ann Nalbone
Jade:
I would like to apologize on behalf of the pro-life movement for the insipid tirade(s) of Ms. Nalbone. We are not all similarly inclined, as the statements of ORW’s President (as well as Cheryl Sullenger) can attest.
Ms. Nalbone: If you wish to continue your holier-than-thou ramblings, I would be happy to provide you with the address in Topeka (if I knew it) of the juvenile delinquent father of my lost child. He bullied, coerced and compelled four other underage girls to the abortionist, yet I don’t hear you and all the other holy harridans condemning him. Interesting, isn’t it – that he resides in the same city as Fred Phelps. Why don’t you go pay them both a visit?
I’m sure you’d be their most vocal and athletic supporter……..
Jade,
I told you to stop giving examples because you can bleed to death from different reasons, and everyone knows that! We are not talking about bleeding to death by tonsils, etc. We are talking about something different! We are talking about death by murder and an abortion “gone worse.” I have told you that a few times now. This is the last time.
You are trying to get around the subject of what matters. If you are so against pro-life, what are you doing on the website? Abortionists must have their own websites, you would fit in well there.
You go to church? Then you must not be paying attention. You are a Tiller supporter. You said he is a wonderful person. Wonderful to you is warped, because Tiller is not wonderful. He is a murderer. A murderer is evil.
I am an Operation rescue supporter, on their website……what does that tell you?
It tells me that you are here to attack anyone who believes in protecting innocent babies. I don’t want you to feel sorry for me, because your version of feeling sorry for an innocent person would not be a good thing. And I don’t need your pity.
Yo come on this site and tell everyone who is pro-life that you adore Tiller. Of course you know that would get a negative reaction here. Then you could attack anyone who reacts.
You think you are clever, but I figured you out! Be gone!
Mary Ann Nalbone
Songbird,
No need to apologize on my account. You can save your apologies for God when you meet Him.
I am not holy by any means. I am here to speak on behalf of the murdered babies. They have no voice. No one can fight for them.
I didn’t know about that man in Topeka. I feel badly for the misguided girls. That is very sad and I hope they recover and find strength to go on and find their way. I do not call people and I do not visit people. I speak to people at church if they have questions (I am a teacher), and I speak online and to friends and family.
If there are any women who are confused about what to do if they become pregnant, please respond and I will do all I can to help you. This website should be about helping you, not putting you down. Abortionists should not be on this site, so don’t let that stop you. You can count on me.
Mary Ann Nalbone
R-r-r-r-r-right….You’re all about “helping people” and showing your “Christian love” – aren’t you, Ms. Nalbone:
Just like you showed so much “love” for the dead woman in the case cited above.
If that is an example of your “Christian love” – Ms. Nalbone – I’ll take a big, huge, pass on it. And I shall stand by what I have said:
In 1977, I repented to GOD – not YOU. Is that clear – or is further explanation needed here? I received absolution from the priest who was the vessel of the Lord – not Mary Ann Nalbone. If your efforts – and that of your church – have saved many young girls (or even one young girl or woman) from the abortionist’s grasp, then I am very pleased. I am not doubting that you have done so. For that (and for all your self-proclaimed spiritual authority) – you should probably be proud – not arrogant. And certainly not all-knowing – of me or anyone else who has faced this tragedy.
As if further clarification was needed by this point: Look, once again, at the statements of Mr. Newman and Mrs. Sullenger. They are not comdemning the mother in this case to hell – they are asking for prayers for her and her aborted child. They are not excusing the sin of abortion – in this case, in my case or anyone else’s. You’d do well to emulate their statements, and remember that it takes two to tango, madam. Well, no, that’s too kind in my case. If you had read any of my previous attestations, you’d know that I am also a rape victim, as well as a post-abortive woman at the tender age of 16. To be blunt, there wasn’t any dancing go on, nor any promiscuity, nor any emotional maturity – at least on my part.
So…….I am sure you can understand why I don’t like being lectured to as if I were still a miscreant child. Further, there may be other post-abortive women reading your tirades, and I’m just plain mad as hell when I think of the pain you’ve likely caused them.
Repent, Ms. Nalbone. Repent.
Mary Ann
I still think in that twisted little mind of yours your confused. The point I was making when refering to other simple medical procedures where peole have blead to death is this… Its not the doctors fault in most cases, Its how a persons body reacts sometimes, Just as In the case at Dr Tillers Office….. Also I dont think im clever I know I am, Im not to sure what you think you have figured out about me, please id like to know, because the way I see it is we never fully undrstand who we are, we may have ideas but we never fully understand. But being that you are so close to godliness and you are holier then the rest of us, I trust you must know more then the rest of us simple minded people. I have a feeling you are in for a big surprise come judgment day. Its people like you that give the pro life movement a bad name! Did you knwo you almost sound crazy in your rants?…..I myself am Pro choice for he most part, I am a third trimester patient of Dr Tillers. ( ohh i cant wait to hear you condemn me to hell now! HAHA) But I respect the views of alot of the men and women on here, I stop in from time to time to keep up on what has been going on. I disagree with alot of the things said on here However I do agree with some.
“While some opposing views are tolerated for the purposes of discussion, this is not a place to verbally attack ORW or it’s supporters. Thank you for understanding.”
I am welcome here aswell as my opposing view for the purpose of discussion. SO far I have not attacked ORW or its supporters. I do not however consider you a suporter, Your sole purpose in being here is to be little people to second guess peoples words and actions, and to share your godliness with us all, I think a few will agree with me that it is you that needs to “be gone”………
Jade:
I made a solemn vow – both to myself and to God – that I would NEVER hurl invective at other post-abortive women. I find the act of abortion (not excluding my own) blameworthy – and it is the deep moral implications of abortion that I feel compelled to address. Not to point fingers at specific women and/or their partners.
Instead of condemning you to hell, I would only say that I am sorrowful for you and others. I am sorrowful that you were not treated in a hospital and that alternative procedures were not implemented. But you haven’t asked for my advice – so I will reiterate my own deep moral qualms about abortion, including my own. Significantly, during the last few months I have clarified my own views about this subject – to the point that I can no longer remain silent. But that doesn’t equate to hurting individuals or hurling cruel words their way.
It also doesn’t equate to repenting to every Tom, Dick and (Mary Ann) Nal-boney on the face of the earth. I confessed to my priest – I confessed to God. I fiercely resent the snooty sophomorisms of anyone who insults my intelligence about this fact. Or who would seek to denigrate me into submission to their own questionable motives. I won’t have it – I simply won’t have it.
Michael: I am fairly inured with the stereotype of the pro-lifer you’ve provided. Quite simply, it is just that – a stereotype. It applies to some – but not all – pro-lifers. Let me assure you – I am not jealous of, seeking to control, or resentful of anyone’s sex lives. The facts of my own life (30 years of celibacy) would seek to state otherwise – but it is simply not what I’m about. I want people to have wonderful marriages. I want people to be happy. I want husbands and wives to enjoy the marital embrace as God obviously intended.
But I believe we owe our Creator a certain fealties: and respect for life – all life – is surely one of them. This does not, in my view, equate to sexual repression. It frequently equates to sublimation and/or responsibility – and even self-denial if the circumstances dictate. But I’m no shrinking violet here. Shove “The Total Woman” (written by uber-repressoid Marabel Morgan) in front of my face – as well as a copy of “The Dirt” (Motley Crue’s horrific autobiography) – and I start to wilt. And snarl.
jade
you seem to have very confused and distorted moral views.
here’s a previous post from you:
–
“I think you people are disgusting, Its the womans choice. Dr, Tiller is a wonderfull man and the people at the la quinta are wonderful. You all must lead very empty lives……..You should all be condemned for what you are doing to these poor women. Id personally like to spit in the faces of each and every one of you!”
Posted by Jade at January 20, 2005 11:23 AM
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in another one of your confused, meandering posts, you chastise someone for criticizing you, and state “….SO far I have not attacked ORW or its supporters.”.
based on the post from january 20th, it would seem that you are not being honest.
Jerome
There is noting dishonest abot anything ive said. Id still ike to spit in the faces of people like Mary Ann. Also my moral views are not distorted in any way shape or form…. care to explain?
( i wonder if he will quote something from the book of Mary Ann)
jade
another of your confused comments, after someone pointed out to you that one of the ten commandments says that murder is wrong in God’s eyes, was:
“Let that be gods decision not the decision of the oh so holy mary ann.”
there is no way that you can claim to have a relationship with your Creator, when you don’t acknowledge His character, His principles, and yes, His laws. God has already made His decision about right and wrong, and He wrote a book to help us know Him and His principles.
i urge you to get a copy of that book and start reading it. it’s called the HOLY BIBLE.
jade
in a previous post, you say “God has taught me to love and to FORGIVE”.
it would appear that your god has NOT taught you to forgive, but to spit in the faces of people who disagree with you.
and so i repeat, get yourself a Bible and start reading.
God is not mocked. Whatsoever a (wo)man sows that shall (s)he also reap.
Jade, you have so much anger in you. Is there
something bothering you?
This is not a hate group, we should be talking civilly to one another. I sense agression in your words. I don’t know where all of your hatred towards me came from. You said you are Tiller’s patient in your last comment? You are having an abortion by him? It makes more sense now that you could be so crude. You adore a man who is going to help kill your baby. You need spiritual help. Maybe you can talk to your pastor of your church, and he can help you get over whatever it is that is eating away at you.
Maybe he can help save your baby as well. I can only pray for that. Well I hope you can find peace with whatever you are going through.
I hope you still don’t want to spit on my face. I sure don’t want to spit on yours.
Peace Jade,
Mary Ann Nalbone
Jade,
I just read a past comment you made on the boycotting issue. I didn’t know your story. You just recently said that you are Tiller’s patient. I am glad that you and your husband are planning on keeping the baby. I read how you aborted your other baby because he/she was going to die. I know that you are sorry for it, but please I hope you can be at peace and stop being in denial, and let the anger go.
I have never been in your situation, and it must have been horrific to go through for you. It is unfortunate that you weren’t strong enough to deliver the baby naturally, and let nature take its course, and do as God would have done. I pray that you can find a way to overcome this and live a healthy, stable, happy life. The only way you can do this is to feel the shame that has brought you here, feel the sin you committed, and pray to God that He heals you. You have to forgive yourself. You have to go on living. God wants you to.
Yes I am sure Tiller is quite charming. But don’t let his attitude take you in. The devil can be very charming. The devil can be nice. The devil will do whatever he can to convince you it is ok to sin.
Tiller is wonderful to you because he wants to take you in his dark world. If Tiller showed you his true colors, then you sure wouldn’t go to him. Please listen to me, and others listen as well. See the acts that someone commits, that will tell you who someone is.
Peace all,
Mary Ann Nalbone
Jade:
May I please offer my heartfelt plea to you this morning? If you are currently pregnant, may I suggest a visit to the Choices Medical Clinic and/or a visit to an ob/gyn who specializes in whatever challenges you’re facing right now? I can’t begin to imagine the difficulties you’re facing and have faced in the past, and I wouldn’t be so arrogant to say, “I know exactly how you feel” – even though I am post-abortive myself.
The staff at the Choices Clinic are wonderful people, Jade – and they are Christlike in their compassion and sensitivity. They won’t hurl cruel words your way – but they will suggest alternatives for you and your family that would likely lead you away from Dr. Tiller.
Moreover, – and I can say this much with a fair degree of authority – a specialist can offer so much more in the level of care, attention to detail, and knowledge than can a general practitioner. I grew up in a little podunk Kansas town, 150 miles from Wichita – and believe it or not, there were absolutely NO ob/gyn’s when I was 16 and pregnant. My family doctor (who delivered me and almost everyone else who was born in Hays, KS from 1958-1979) was a wonderful man, but he was not a specialist. I shall not elaborate here, but my experiences as an older woman have surely informed my views here: a specialist is invaluable. I can’t help believing that someone with superior skill would be of most benefit to you at this time.
Not someone for whom abortion is their modus operandi.
Of course, my own views are coming into play here. But I feel I must be true to my conscience while offering my concerns for you at this time. I would not be so arrogant as to say that every post-abortive woman shares my feelings. But many of them do (I spoke with one of them last night, actually).
You may also wish to contact ORW or click on their website links which offer help to pregnant women. Alternatively, you could certainly call Operation Rescue West in Wichita and speak to one of their staff personally. I am confident that they would be more than willing to help you – or direct you to someone who can.
Finally, may I suggest a visit to a Christian counseling facility in Wichita – it doesn’t matter if you are Catholic, Protestant or neither. People care deeply about this issue – and they want to help others. Several times during the past three months, I have listened to an audiotape of a 1995 debate between a Catholic Lay Minister (Dr. Philip St. Romain) and a recently-deceased Protestant minister. Dr. Romain was – at that time – the Director of a Catholic Ministry in Wichita. He is a profoundly caring and compassionate advocate for life – all life – and I am sure he could be of assistance to you as well. (I don’t have a Wichita phone book handy – but if you call any Catholic Church in Wichita, I’m sure they could point you in the proper direction.)
Jade – I hope I have lived up to my vow to be kind and compassionate. But I can no more ignore my own conscience about the subject of abortion than I can abandon my concern for pregnant women. Both are equally important. I too was pregnant 30 years ago this month, and I know how vulnerable one can feel. I know I did. Happily, Wichita is a much different cultural landscape than Hays, KS in the early days of 1975.
I truly wish the best for you, Jade.
Songbird,
Thank you for your kind words I do appriciate them. But it sounds to me like you think im in some sort of trouble or dilema. Im not at all, Im married I have a beautiful home and loving family. I see the best genetic councellor in the country him and his team are great. What happened last time with the Trisomy 22 was a “fluke” A bad egg if you will. The genetics team has run every test known to man on my husband and me. This baby is healthy as can be. Thank you tho.
Songbird,
Thank you for your kind words I do appriciate them. But it sounds to me like you think im in some sort of trouble or dilema. Im not at all, Im married I have a beautiful home and loving family. I see the best genetic councellor in the country him and his team are great. What happened last time with the Trisomy 22 was a “fluke” A bad egg if you will. The genetics team has run every test known to man on my husband and me. This baby is healthy as can be. Thank you tho.
Oh, Jade – I’m SO happy – I was mistaken in my belief that you were a (current) patient of Dr. Tiller’s and that you were experiencing a crisis in your pregnancy.
I couldn’t be more pleased that this isn’t the case. Please forgive my mistake – I think I misread an earlier post – either of yours or someone else’s. (Then again, I could just be getting senile – that could VERY easily be the case……..). I mean, if you could have seen (or heard) any of the women on my late father’s side of the family, you’d know I probably have something to fear in that department…….
Best wishes to you!
I agree with Robert.
Yes, Tiller’s license should be suspended AT LEAST until this death is thoroughly investigated.
No, ORW and supporters aren’t looking for pretexts such as world hunger to target ‘poor, innocent, put-upon ’saint Tiller’. Actually, pro-abort Tiller allies have been blaming world hunger on “overpopulation” — e.g., all those “unwanted” (by population control freaks) children — as a pretext for targeting them for
unjust destruction– for years now. Get facts, engage brain, THEN write…hasn’t that been mentioned here before?
Another clear example of how to learn the truth on these matters: listen to the proaborts, and believe the opposite. Or you can do the research. IF you do both, you can’t go wrong.
And yes, a (wo)man can bleed to death from a simple appendectomy; but there is a huge difference between that procedure and an induced abortion. In fact, several:
She is much less likely to hemorrhage, especially fatally, from the appendectomy because that procedure belongs to REGULATED medicine, done with back-up equipment handy by people who typically want to save human life.
An appendix is a part of her body which can jeopardize the health of her whole body.
A baby–brace yourselves, proaborts– IS NOT PART OF HER BODY, but is a separate human being growing within her body, connected to her body by a cord. And a baby, unlike her appendix, has the potential to grow into a being like her in kind.
A healthy (or even handicapped, for that matter) baby is also much less likely than a diseased appendix to put her life in jeopardy. And I’ve always wondered how people who claim to be so concerned about women’s health & life support an invasive procedure which does not cure, treat, or prevent any known disease, but increases the woman’s risk of (among myriad other ills) ectopic pregnancy, which is known to be life-threatening to women…?
And I think I read recently somewhere (?!) that THE NUMBER TO CALL FOR LEGAL ASSISTANCE WITH ABORTION-RELATED DEATH OR INJURY IS 1-800-U CAN SUE…and NO, CONSENT DOES NOT EXCUSE MALPRACTICE.
Tiller without a license…Wichita without a death camp and crematorium…it’s a dream worthy of humanity.
Oh, and ORW–DO GET A LIFE! IN FACT, WE HOPE YOU GET ALL OF THE LIVES SAFELY OUT OF TILLER’S THRALLDOM UNTIL SAID DREAM COMES TRUE! GOD SPEED!
Hi Jade,
I am really sorry to hear you had an abortion. I had one 26 years ago. For 24 of those years I managed to repress the pain, but in the end denial gave way to grief.
I am now recovering from this past hurt, though I will always miss my first child. As much as it has hurt to face the truth, I found it to be better than the lie I lived most all of my adult life.
Maintaining the lie ‘that my baby was better off dead’, cost me dearly. I pray you will not make the same mistake.
Blessings,
Pam
Pam,
Its not a lie I need to maintain. My baby was 8.5 mos gestation. And she was going to die weither I went to see Dr Tiller, Or weither I delivered Naturally. Trisomy 22 is INCOMPATIBLE WITH LIFE!.. Im not some 17yr old girl who got pregnant and didint want my mom and dad to find out. I am an adult, I am married, I have a child, and i was expecting the child in question. It was unfortunate that she had what she did. But dr Tiller is not to blame for her death, it was inevitable.
Jade, I’m so sorry you suffered a loss of a child. That being said, didn’t your child deserve dignity in death? Meaning, didn’t a child of yours deserve to die, in your arms surrounded by your love? Yes, death was inevitable BUT the the way in which your daughter died was not. She suffered, might she have suffered in a natural death? Yes, but (as any mother knows) a child in pain is still comforted by being held close in the arms of their mother. Her death would not have been at the hands of a paid murderer, but by the hands of God the one who is really in charge. I also wouldn’t categorize your daughter as a bad egg, she was a person, a life that was created by The Creator, she had a purpose whatever that might have been. Children are a gift from God regardless of the state of their physical bodies, their souls are still perfect & created in His image!
“No Lights and No Sirens…Please!”
I urge everyone to listen to the audiotape provided here.
Governor Sebelius needs to hear it as well. She needs to act – immediately.
Does Dr. Tiller kill helpless and innocent lives?
Does he?
Again, does he do that?
Is it wonderful to do that?
If I did that, would you call ME a wonderful person?
amy and pam
well said.
Hi Jade,
I know these are some very personal question, but I am wondering why you chose abortion over natural death for your baby? And I am also wondering if you have been able to grieve for her? Surely, you did (still do)love her…no?
Blessings,
Pam
I chose abortion because it was what the specialists recomended, and these are not some joe shmoe Dr’s these are the best genetics Dr’s in the country.had I deliverd naturally my baby would of suffocated the part of your brain that allows you to breathe and swallow did not exist with her along with a list of about 100 other things. I cry for her every day and I miss her so. Ive made peace with the decisions Ive made,and im convinced its what was best.
jade
i accept that your grief is real. however, do you really think the Great Physician would not have provided enough strength for you to deal with the child dying in your arms?
real doctors and geneticists care about both patients, and delivery is the natural way to deal with this type of situation. though you say you’re “at peace” with having chosen to end your child’s life two weeks early, i fail to understand how and why that was necessary.
i’m not trying to pile on, but the death of your child was unnatural and in my view, lacked moral clarity.
by the way, you have said in other posts that you oppose abortion for birth control and that it’s “very very wrong”. but you’ve also said you’re “prochoice”. this is mindboggling, since 98% of abortions are done for birth control. the other two percent include life of the mother, rape, incest, and fetal abnormality. if you oppose 98% of abortions, then how are you “prochoice”? it would appear that you are in agreement with the prolife view in 98% of circumstances.
Jade,
I am so very sorry about the loss of your little girl. Having had an abortion myself, for much more selfish reasons then you did, I certainly have no stones to throw at you.
I only wanted to be sure you had given yourself permission to grieve for your precious little one. If you gave her a name and are willing to share it with me, I would like to remember her in my heart and in my prayers.
May the God of all comfort be of great comfort to you during this time.
Many Blessings,
Pam
“How high can a sycamore grow? If you cut it down, you’ll never, never know”…
Jade, we sincerely wish you the swiftest and safest journey possible re: full healing from your abortion, as well as the safest, easiest delivery possible of your latest addition…for all concerned.
But several of us could not help being yet more appalled than we already are by Tiller’s career by your mentioning the fact that he would willingly slaughter a struggling baby “because she would have died anyway”. I guess there is, then, no one who he would not kill if he could get away with it; after all, everyone is going to die anyway…sometime. And yet you still praise him as a paragon of optimal health care? Jade, think life. Think repentance of, not justification for, your part in this. I hear so much self-justification in your letters, and it saddens me because I think that the One Who said, “blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted” is the only One who can put the broken pieces of you back together. It is one thing to mourn the loss of your daughter; but you lost part of yourself in that killing; He is not only waiting to rejoin you with your daughter in eternity, I think He is waiting to rejoin you to your broken womanhood here. Let Him. You are so blessed to have a family to support you in this; not all women in similar positions to yours do. But they are not your ultimate hope, healing, or accountability, though how you deal with Him will affect them, too.
All the best,
I think it’s odd that pro-choicers come on here and try to defend, Tiller the Killer. (lol..I love that nick name). Pro-Lifers, we just have to pray that God will soften their hearts. Whoever can say “Well, Tiller is a GOOD doctor” obviosuly lost sight of the real issue. The real issue is NOT a womens “right”. As a women, I would NOT be against for our god-given rights! for Pete sakes, pro-choicers need to grow up and understand that. Pro-Life women are ALL for “rights” for us! Of course! I believe women should have the right to vote, to wear what they want to, to say what they want to, to have any career they like, etc etc… but since 1973.. it’s like saying “well, women can’t mentally handle being pregnant” so the solution? Hey women, let’s round up all of our unborn children, and KILL them…because your mentally unstable right now! Or it’s like saying “Women don’t WANT to be pregnant, so..they can kill the child”, and that is turning to the other side and saying that women kill innocent people because they want too! The “health” of the women..when you become a mom, I thought women as mothers would die for their children? not kill them? Hmmm… Thats totally discusting. And I am insulted that Roe V. Wade was EVER an issue. Dr. Tiller really needs to repent. I would like to know what the heck his excuse is for wanting to do late term abortions? Ohh..yeah I get it, the money. Thats so nice…what a sweetheart…*cough* more like a baby killing freak. He can pay rent…buy food…etc etc with money that was used to murder a child. He is going to be judged VERY hard when he stands before God. Even if you pro-choicers don’t believe in God…look at the scientific facts about unborn children, ladies and gentleman. In response to “Pam” about her child being ill and was going to die. I want to say I am very sorry about that kind of news. I hope you can overcome that knowing your child was ill. Pam, however, I must say that I am not a closed-minded person. I totally can stand in your shoes. I mean, your child is goi
ng to die anyways? Why not just end it and not drag the child along any further? Sometimes it takes more “love” to do the right thing. The reality is though, Pam. It was not the right thing to do. I understand that your daughter would have died in the first place, but it’s better to have delivered the child, and have it die naturally than to kill it. Maybe your child had a purpose? maybe god was trying to tell you something? I don’t care what your excuse is, how sick your child was (but I am very sorry about that). YOU should not have put the life or death in YOUR hands. All I can say is that I will pray for you, and I would hate to be you on judgement day. Please repent.
Everyone- have a wonderfull and Tiller free day!,
xoxo
Ashley
Dear Women of God, Please!!! To see such condemnation is almost too much to bear. I have been in this place and have felt the sorrow that there is in knowing that the blessing that God has offered is being ignored. It says in the Old Testement that a child that is unwanted by it’s father is better NOT to be born. Having been there, I know that MOST of the women there would prefer to keep the pregnacy. However, like me, could not afford to continue with it. Also there are situations where it is unsafe for a woman to continue, because the father is unsafe. I mean abusive. It is next to impossible to run from an abuser when you have a child together.
Yes, in truth, we(women) should be more diligent in making sure of the men that we could possiably be parents with. However, there are all kinds of circumstanses when a woman has NOT choosen to be pregnat. Just as the decision(?) to have sex is between those people, the issue of abortion should be left between those people.
I am curious. There are many instances of post-abortive issues. What are the consequences of adoption? Foster care? Do we believe that just because we have convinced a women to carry to term, that we have saved her soul? I believe that it is God’s job to do that, not ours. If the woman has taken the time and makes an informed decision, who are you or I to say that she will rot in Hell for doing it?
I do not encourage abortion. I will say that it is a part of society whether it be done legally or not. I would rather that it be regulated so that there are not more deaths because of the efforts of people to legislate morality.
God bless each of us to follow His teaching of Love, Mercy and Compassion for each other.
I was re-reading and noted that this is a very hot topic. It seems to me that each person has their own view of what God is teaching on this. If we look into the Old Testement, we will find many instances of MURDER!!! Isn’t it odd that it’s ok to kill for God, Church or because of some rantings of a leader, but not ok BY GOD’S OWM LAW? What can we say about that?
I would that each person think about the lives that are already here. This site seems to be so concerned about the “unborn” yet I see no refrence to helping the poor and starving children on the Earth. Those children are not just Spirits yet to be born, but ALIVE! NOW!!! I know of a young(mid-20’s) woman that has some severe medical disablilities. However, because she is a “good” Catholic, is trying to raise 4 young children WITHOUT the help of their fathers because of the father’s abuse to her. It is women like these that you should be helping! She has followed the scantinty of life values that you espouse, yet you, by defult, penalize her by giving your time and effort to be involved in a decision that IS NOT YOURS TO MAKE!!
Please! By now, we all know how the Church stands on this topic. We do not need more condemnation, but more love for the living among us, be they post-abortive or not!
My prayers to all!
Can I just say that the last two posts have stimulated my gag reflex? Under the guise of being “loving” these idiots are advocating dismembering innocent children in the womb most of whom can feel pain. Please. (Yes, real children — not spirits. BTW, in my opinion that was just a lame attempt to justify murder and assuage a guilty conscience.) Can’t afford a child? There are more pregnancy care centers than abortion mills that can help you with that. In an abusive reelationship? Get out of it. There are groups and courts that can help you with that, too. Murder can never be an option for solving problems, no matter how much you try to sugar coat it.
I wonder that if those supporters and worshippers of Molech and current infanticide practices had been alive during the days of Thalidimide, would still be worshipping at the alter of the Wichita, KS (aka, American Auschwitz), and Dr Teller (Mengele), and the money he provides to the politicians of Kansas.
I can afford to take a side and speak against Thie practices of the money mills. I suvived an abortion and I witnessed the hell my mother went through for nearly 50 years out of pure guilt over the taking of my twin brother.
This poor girl with down syndrome was murdered and so was her baby. And you people argue that she “may not have died”. What if this was your sister, daughter,cousin, aunt, mother, friend???? Would you still argue this? Maybe this abortionist will not be punished on earth, but we all must face God on judgement day. I am not a bible thumper but murdering innocent people is WRONG!!!!