We’re in Rolling Stone Magazine!
We’re in Rolling Stone Magazine!
This week a feature article has been published in the extremely liberal Rolling Stone Magazine about our work in Wichita, Kansas. Although the article has flaws, it is without a doubt, the best treatment of a pro-life ministry ever published by this magazine.
The article, titled ’One Man’s God Squad,’ appearing in such a widely read publication is bound to elicit responses from both sides of the abortion issue. We pray that it will encourage and inspire all those who labor to save innocent lives from abortion and serve to put those on notice who participate in child-killing: ’Your sins will find you out.’
The article is available on line at RollingStone.com. It is due to hit the newsstands tomorrow, Friday, July 30, 2004.
Here is a preview’
The letter arrived on a Tuesday in march. “Dear Sara,” it read. “It is our information that you are currently an employee of Women’s Health Care Services, a facility that provides abortions.” It went on to suggest that Sara Phares, an administrative assistant at the clinic in Wichita, Kansas, quit her job and repent her sins. “Please know that we are praying for you,” the letter concluded. It was signed “Troy Newman, President, Operation Rescue West.” A week later, hundreds of Phares’ neighbors received an anonymous postcard of a mangled fetus. This is abortion! read the big block letters. “Your neighbor Sara Phares participates in killing babies like these.” The postcard implored them to call Phares, whose phone number and address were provided, and voice their opposition to her work at the clinic. Another card soon followed. It referred to Phares as “Miss I Help to Kill Little Babies” and suggested, in an erratic typeface that recalled a kidnapper’s ransom note, that neighbors “beg her to quit, pretty please.” The third postcard dispensed entirely with pleasantries: “Sara Phares is not to be trusted! Tell her to get a life!”
Read the rest at ’Rolling Stone.com - One Man’s God Squad’
July 30th, 2004 at 12:52 am
I am from Wichita. I have done prayer walks out side of Tillers clinc and I hate what goes on in that place. I am completly pro-life but what your are doing is not going to get these people to ‘repent and turn from their ways’. Instead it is going to make them hate pro-life people even more. The extream you are going to is not out of love. It is borderline to hate. A women who tells a ten year old kid that someone in his naghborhood is a ‘baby killer’ is NOT right. We want to protect our children not give them nightmares. My heart aches for the women who have this done but my heart aches even more at the thought of all the pain your group is causing.
July 30th, 2004 at 2:36 am
Christina , your being the perfect example of a comfort zone do nothing ‘pro-lifer’ that enables the sin of murdering the un-born to reign in our land. Turn from your apathy while there is still time. Seek the Lord while He may be found !
August 2nd, 2004 at 6:06 pm
Operation Rescue isn’t any different than Al-Qaeda. I hope the rolling stone article brings you all the negative publicity that you deserve. You give all pro life Christians a bad name. You disgust me.
August 3rd, 2004 at 12:00 pm
This is some of the most stunningly abusive and irresponsible behaviour I have seen from an organization in this country. Your organization’s publication and derogatory remarks on this woman’s job opens her up to public reprisal and puts her in danger. REGARDLESS of your views on anything to do with her lifestyle, appearance, or profession, your opinion does not entitle you to abuse her privacy in this way. It’s inviting and (by dint of that) condoning some sort of pro-life pogrom. Your pride in being abusive to this woman is reprehensible and disgusting. If you respect life, then have the courage to respect it unilaterally, instead of selectively.
August 3rd, 2004 at 9:46 pm
I think you guys are sick and demented!! What gives you the right to make such personal decisions for women and their lives? You have no idea what type of life they are living or what hardships they are facing with any pregnancy. I believe all women have the right to chose what they want to happen to their bodies and no one can tell them any different.
If you were to stamp out the abortion process, what exactly are you planning to do with all the unwanted babies that will be malnourished, or left on street corners because their mothers couldn’t afford to take care of them? When you send out postcards of mangled fetuses to people they should send one back of a dead baby found in a dumpster because it’s mother didn’t want it. Because that’s exactly what’s going to happen if you try to take away the rights of our American People!!!!!!!!
August 3rd, 2004 at 10:13 pm
mary
you are thoroughly uninformed….the reason there are kids found in dumpsters is BECAUSE of legalized abortion…. i dare you to find me any news story prior to 1973 of a child found in a dumpster….
you poor choicers promised us that legalizing abortion would end all child abuse, so-called “unwanted” children, etc…. has it worked? you know it has not…in fact, it’s multiplied exponentially.
as far as whether it is morally wrong to expose those who participate in baby killing, i would urge you to study history, including the
Bible. didn’t john the baptist EXPOSE king herod’s adulterous relationship? and the prophets did the same…. sin must be brought out into the light…not safely and comfortably ignored.
if this woman had nothing to hide or be ashamed of, then she could hold her head high and keep on keeping on. instead, her sin found her out. God works through these situations to bring about repentance.
in the words of Dante, “the hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of moral crisis, do nothing.”
August 4th, 2004 at 12:39 am
I just read this article and I am appalled. I am pro-life but I think your organization’s tactics are deplorable. It seems to me that you are terrorizing people like Sara Phares. Can’t you stop for a second to see what it’s like for her? She’s just a human being, trying to make her way and pay her bills, and people are constantly harassing her. I’m surprised you haven’t gotten charged with harassment yet. What if she and the other employees do quit their jobs? Are you guys going to find them new ones? Or have you forgotten that the nation’s economy is bad?
Also, I realize that you are trying to save the lives of babies, and that is admirable. But in the process you are hating everyone else. I guess you are picking and choosing the Christian beliefs that suit you, because you are definitely and purposefully neglecting “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Should we pray for an end to abortion? Yes. Should we contact our representatives in Washington about abortion? Yes. Should we educate the public about abortion and peacefully protest near clinics? Of course. Should we ruthlessly harass people, make their lives a living hell, or even just harm them to make sure they are out of the way? Not on your soul. Please please find a more Christian way of doing things.
August 4th, 2004 at 12:04 pm
Im sorry, but i am very pro-choice. This country is built upon the freedom of our peoples. Harassing people because they chose to end the life of a fetus who , more often then not isnt even into the second trimester and therefore not even cconsidered human, because in reality its still a mass of cells at that point, is not only annoying but a waste of time. Yes, women who get abortions are “baby killers” as you would so title them, but what should they do is being pregnant can KILL them? What should they do if, they were raped and now are pregnant with the rapists child? What should they do if they are 14 years old, and made a mistake?
Abortion to me, is a choice every woman in this country faces at one point in time. Well maybe saying every is far too braod lets say , a lot of women face. A fetus is part of THEIR body and they alone have the right to chose what happens to their body .
How would you like it if i stood outside your churches, outside of your houses and preached on how God, doesnt exsist. This bible that you refer to over and over and over again was written by man. And it is a well known fact that man is an AMAZING story teller. How would like for me to sit outside your house and bash you “God” a figment that was brought into peoples minds to give some sort of hope to . A reason for why we exsist when they cant just accept the fact that stuff evolves etc etc etc.
People like you honestly make me sick . And i hope this country canb one day grow into an understanding country but, from how i see it, it never will.
August 5th, 2004 at 9:09 am
You claim to be doing the work of Jesus Christ. Where is your compassion, forgiveness, and have you forgotten that we are told to not judge others as God would? This organization is NOT founded on the principles that Jesus taught. It is founded on HATE. If you believe in pro-life, then go out and do something POSITVE for pro-life. Raise money for pro-life foundations, distribute informative fliers, start a crisis hotline for women considering abortion and try to help them see that abortion isn’t the answer! What this organization is doing is HURTING pro-life. I am thoroughly disgusted. You quote “Have nothing to do with the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but rather reprove them.” Ephesians 5:11 on this very webpage, but do NOT heed it! Violence begets violence. Love begets love. You will never succeed in ending abortion unless you repent of your OWN sins of violence against other sinners, and start doing something positive and meaningful with your lives.
August 5th, 2004 at 4:11 pm
I am pro-choice, but, like all pro-choice Americans, I wish that no woman ever has to have an abortion again. I belive that pro-life and pro-choice have similar interests at heart–to reduce the number of abortion. How this should be accomplished is where we differ. It is very refreshing to see that so many pro-life Americans are just as disgusted by Troy Newman and the rest of Operation Rescue as I am. If we can come together and agree that harassment gets us nowhere, then perhaps we can work together to truly solve a problem that is not going to go away because Troy Newman tries to bully a bunch of people into quitting their jobs.
August 7th, 2004 at 4:54 pm
I do read the Bible, and I do believe in God…however you trying to act as God is wrong. After reading the article in the Rolling Stone Magazine sparked something with in me. That there are people and organizations all over this county expressing there opinions. I do not find anything wrong with that, however when you start invading other peoples privacy in there own homes is wrong. In fact I feel as though you are causing more infliction and pain on such an issue as abortion.
I was raised pro-life, because that is what my parents believ in. Now that I have grown into my own person and have seen what this world is coming to, I have chosen to become pro-choice due the fact that there is so much crime, drugs, disease and more in this world.
Before you tell someone to do there research, and to take there foot out of their mouth….OPEN YOUR EYES…let me see your organization adopt a children that have been born to a mother who has aides, has a drug addiction and can not shake it for her life, or for her unborn childs life…Let the people who have read this article see your organization do good other than torment people. What gives you right, did you actually get a phone call from God? Please tell me, or GET A LIFE!!! and let everyone live their own!!!!!
August 8th, 2004 at 1:08 am
If this is what it takes to save babies lives, DO IT and don’t stop until abortion is ILLEGAL AGAIN!!!
“I was raised pro-life, because that is what my parents believ in. Now that I have grown into my own person and have seen what this world is coming to, I have chosen to become pro-choice due the fact that there is so much crime, drugs, disease and more in this world.”
Were you born yesterday? How has elective abortion helped solve these social problems in the 30+ years it has been legal?
“GET A LIFE!!!” Well, uh…yeah. That’s the whole point.
August 8th, 2004 at 1:16 am
I’d like to tell you all a very TRUE story that happened in my area last spring.
A park ranger was walking along a bank of a river here and discovered a trash bag with something in it. After revealing a dead infant, a sheet, and bricks tied to the infant’s legs in this bag, the ranger called local authorities. So the infant’s death was investigated and it was determined by physical evidence that this baby was tied to two bricks, wrapped in a sheet and then placed in a plastic trash bag and then thrown over the bridge, onto the bank (meant for the river below). The FBI is now involved in this case as well as our local and state police department but no one has been found guilty as of late. The baby was named “Christian” and burried in a local historic cemetary in his honor.
This all happened in a nation where abortion is LEGAL and easily obtained! HOW has elective abortion solved this problem??? IT HASN’T!
August 8th, 2004 at 1:37 am
“If you didnt have the bible would you still be against abortion? I bet not.”
Abortion isn’t about religion, my friend. Here’s an opinion from an atheist who is also pro life:
“Why Should Atheists Be Pro-Life?
By Judy Ferris
I am often asked this question. I usually answer, “Why shouldn’t atheists be pro-life?”
Nobody questions why non-religious persons fight drug abuse, drunk-driving, rape, poverty, crime, etc. Why should fighting abortion be viewed so differently?
Some people think that unless you believe in God, or more specifically, a God that will punish you in Hell if you do something wrong, then you cannot be made to behave. They apparently believe that atheists must be criminals.
Yet, many non-religious people actively fight crime, violence, and “wrongdoing” for many reasons. We believe in fairness and justice, protection of people’s rights, lives and property. Heck, we even register to vote and try to pass laws to govern the behavior of other citizens! I am living proof that a belief in God or religion is not necessary for a person to become involved in the fight against abortion.
In fact, one thing that both the abortion industry and the pro-life movement agree on is that public ignorance about fetal development, abortion methodology and post-abortion complications is necessary if abortion is to remain legal. Ironically, the religious orientation of most pro-lifers may act as the major factor preventing education from taking place.
Faith and Trust
Once upon a time, I was a “pro-choice” woman. I believed in many mythical things back then: that sex could be “free” from any committments or consequences, that legalized abortion was “safe”, that “control” over female reproductive functions would lead to equal rights for women. But the myth I held to most dearly was that opposition to abortion was merely religious.
Since I had allowed my first child to be killed by abortion, I wanted to be reassured that I had nothing to feel ashamed or guilty about. Certain women’s groups comforted me by calling abortion a woman’s “right” - merely a medical procedure. I would literally hold my breath whenever abortion was the topic on television, waiting for religion to be mentioned. The media never let me down. Abortionists angrily complained about the trauma experienced by patients because of pro-life picketers. Abortion-rights activists harassed preachers who spoke up against abortion, accusing them of being insensitive to women.
In a sense I was being repeatedly promised the same thing: as long as I avoided pro-lifers or religion, I would not suffer any post-abortion regrets or grief. I faithfully followed this advice for a decade. As an atheist, I was confident that condemnation of abortion by religious leaders would never bother me.
I gained so much confidence that I could even bring up abortion in conversation or joke about it. I mouthed “pro-choice” slogans as if they were proven truths. What little information about abortion that filtered through my defenses I assumed was propaganda dreamed up by religious fanatics who would even stoop to lying. I perceived the truth about abortion to exist somewhere between bad enough to be a little upsetting (messy, blood) but not so bad as to warrant further investigation. I placed such faith and trust in the providers and defenders of abortion; I believed they were there to help women, to protect women. I was totally unprepared when reality hit.
Seeing The Light
Believing that the fetus was just a “blob of tissue”, that pro-lifers were lying about how developed aborted fetuses are, I had no reason to avoid information from sources that were not “anti-abortion”. I learned about fetal development when my other children were born. I experienced nightmares, crying spells and suicidal thoughts. I knew these were not caused by the activities or words of pro-lifers or preachers. Was I supposed to be upset with sonogram technicians or childbirth instructors for educating me?
Still, I tried to defend abortion somehow. I didn’t want to be called a “right-to-lifer”. I fell back on the “choice” slogans about child abuse, rape, women’s rights… but could not find any real evidence to back up their assumptions. I even contacted “pro-choice” groups to ask questions. It was made very clear to me that my support of the abortion industry was supposed to be “no questions asked!” They had no answers.
As an atheist, one of the most ironic discoveries I made when I became pro-life was the cultist nature of the followers of choice. To a skeptic like myself, the “pro-choice” movement started to look frighteningly fundamentalist. I started asking questions and was “answered” with slogans. Dissatisfied with slogans, I continued asking questions and was accused of being “anti-choice”. To question was taboo; information from pro-lifers was “heresy”, and I had become a “heretic”.
Non-Religious Rationale
Two major differences between atheists and religious persons are their philosphies regarding the origin of the universe and what happens after death. If you examine the atheist’s beliefs, it is easy to understand why they could or should oppose abortion.
Atheists do not believe that the universe was created; they believe that the universe evolved, rather than being planned. “Choicists” believe that “unplanned” life is not worthy of protection. Furthermore, they believe that unplanned-for-lives are doomed to unhappiness, violence, and abuse.
Evidence that humanity has suffered unhappiness, abuse, and violence is easy to find in any history book or just by looking around you now. If the “every child a wanted child” (and if not wanted, destroyed) “prescription” for “curing” child abuse were applied to the whole violent, unplanned universe… well, that sort of “logic” leads directly to advocating for the destruction of the entire human race! in fact, it doesn’t take genius (just honesty) to acknowledge that this sort of reasoning is already being employed in targeting certain groups of humans for reduction or elimination (for their own good, of course, to ease their suffering). Does violence exist because the universe is a bastard, without even a “biological”, let alone spiritual “father”? The theory of evolution and the unplanned pregnancy equals child abuse theory clash with each other.
Examining afterlife philosophies reveals more inconsistencies between “choicism” and atheism. Religious persons generally believe in life after death either in a heaven or via reincarnation; non-religious persons generally believe in the finality of death or a kind of non-religious reincarnation.
For the atheist who believes that when you die, your life is over, period, the taking of an unborn human’s life should be a very serious matter. There will be no comforting of this being by a heavenly father, angels, or relatives after a torturous death; there will be no mere reincarnational transfer. Thousands of times each day unique, never-to-be-again, individual beings have their one and only chance at life terminated without even a trace of “due process”.
Unfortunately, many pro-life individuals are keeping the link between religion and opposition to abortion the primary focus in the debate. For some religious pro-lifers, employing non-religious arguments against abortion is sacrilegious. Not only do they see abortion as a sin, but failing to make reference to religion with each pro-life effort is sinful. They are upset and afraid of the idea of atheist or agnostic pro-lifers. They answer questions with scripture regardless of their audience. They pray at pro-life pickets and meetings. In short, they fit the negative, stereotypical way that all pro-lifers are portrayed: as religious zealots trying to “impose morality”, mindless puppets directed by pro-life preachers.
Some religious pro-lifers simply need more information. They would use the medical, legal, and scientific facts to argue against abortion, if they knew them. Lacking this information, they are not confident discussing abortion. They worry that issues such as child abuse, rape, and “back-alley butchers” will be brought up. They have not yet heard the well-researched, logical explanations that disprove the popular “pro-choice” reasons for “needing” to keep abortion legal.
I hope to educate others about the facts, confident that they will then oppose legalized contract killing of the unborn once they know the truth. I do not try to “impose morality”.
The cold reality is that abortionists are prenatal hitmen, employed to impose morality on innocent unborn humans.”
August 9th, 2004 at 12:16 pm
Mr. Troy Newman,
I read the article in Rolling Stone magazine and I want you to know that I am praying for you. I think you need it.
Are you free from sin? I really doubt it. Why are you so comfortable with casting stones? Do you think Jesus Christ would be threatening people? Jesus Christ wants us to change out of love, not out of fear.
Why are you so full of hate? Why do you judge? Judging others is a sin. I pray for you. I hope you pray for me. I hope you will someday learn to love others the way Jesus Christ intended us to love others. In the meantime, I am trying not to let my disappointment of your actions poison my day.
August 9th, 2004 at 12:35 pm
Man you guys are fools.
Why don’t you go do the human race a favour and throw yourself in a meat blender. (don’t think I’m joking)
Don’t you people care what happens to the child once its born? or do you follow a policy of only caring about the unborn?
Also why haven’t you people been declared terrorists yet?
(also I’m pro-choice and an Aetheist and that ain’t changing anytime soon)
August 10th, 2004 at 2:00 pm
I am a pro-choice mother of 4 who wishes there were never a need for an abortion. Unfortunatally rape and incest happens everyday. Also there are some people who shouldn’t have children, anyone who has worked in foster care will agree with this. The abuse is discusting, burning, beatings and poisoning is routine. Abortion is awful, but I would rather a woman end the unwanted pregnancy then raise a child who is abused.
August 10th, 2004 at 2:30 pm
Stacy, it’s a sad world, indeed. So are you for abortion ONLY in those cases of rape or incest? My mother was mildly retarded and abusive. By your definition, I should have been aborted.
Even though I was abused I work hard to bring a lot of good into this world and I work to see that others don’t have similar situations as I had as a child. I have a great marriage and 3 wonderful boys I am raising to honor women, their neighbors and respect life in general. Had I been aborted, they wouldn’t be here either - and the world would indeed be a lesser place without them.
I know all this has been said before, so you probably already know roughly 90% of abortions are preformed for choice or the mother’s convenience. Punish the rapist. Don’t punish the child. At least the trauma of rape can be lessoned somewhat by offering that child to someone for adoption, rather than adding the guilt of killing a baby to her pain.
Statistically, one out of 6 woman will be raped in America. You mentioned you have 4 children. It’s statistically probable one of them may be raped - which one should we have killed? Yes, a foolish question. Because killing a child is no way to protect them.
All I have written here has been in love and with respect for you, someone also created in God’s image.
August 10th, 2004 at 3:00 pm
To those who say men have no right to be against abortion: Would you listen to what you are saying? That’s like saying,
If you haven’t been President, you have no idea how hard a job it is, so don’t criticize the job Bush is doing.
If you don’t live in a tree, you have no right to be pro-environment. After all you live in a house - you hypocrite!!!
Unless your Jewish, you have no right to be opposed to what the nazi’s did. How could you possibly understand?
Whites against slavery?!? Comeon!!!
I could go on, but you get the idea. “The question has never been can a man get pregnant?” - the question is: When does life begin? And don’t we ALL have a duty to defend and protect that life - in and out of the womb?
It doesn’t matter what your sex is. Killing babies is wrong and we should all speak out against it.
August 11th, 2004 at 5:49 pm
Ron,
Why is it that anti-abortionists can never find middle ground. That is possibly why the organization is often full of fanatics.
I feel that a women should have the right to end a pregnancy in the case of rape or incest. Your right it isn’t the childs fault. But, not being a women and never having carried a baby yourself you have no clue what emotions a woman goes through. Notice I’m not suggesting all rape or incest victims abort, I’m only saying they should have the choice should they not be able to handle the stress.
August 11th, 2004 at 6:24 pm
First to answer your question. Pro-lifers can not find middle ground because they see the baby as just that, a baby. Imagine you are a security guard at a bank. A robber comes in to steal some money - how much will you let him have? None. Because you know in your heart, it’s not his money. Unless he has an account there, you’ll stop him from taking even a nickle - where’s you sense of compromise? There can be none when the law is clear. And likewise we in the pro-life camp (if I can speak for us all) see life beginning at conception, so anything after that “ain’t your nickle” ya know?
I only have 2 questions. 1.) Are you then against abortion except in cases of rape or incest? and 2.) do you really think killing the child is the best way to handle that stress?
I think we have to get a point in America where even a child of rape is and can be loved. It’s insane to think that killing a child is a way to protect them or that killing a child will in anyway remove the pain of rape. I pray for any woman in that situation - I clearly can’t imagine, yet we agree that the child should not suffer and die because of one mans crime. But at this point it’s a side issue and a distraction, because so few abortions are for this reason. The real reason is (for the most part) because women want out of the “situation” and have been taught this is an acceptable option. God have mercy on us all. Thanks for taking the time to listen to me.
August 11th, 2004 at 6:46 pm
I am pro-choice in the cases of rape, incest and to save the life of the mother period. I don’t think abortion should be used as a birth controll method. As I pointed out earlier (you obviously didn’t read that part though) I said women who can’t handle the stress should have the choice to end the pregnancy.
I think if made illegal again women would find distructive ways to accomplish abortion. It has been around for centuries. It should be safe and in a clean environment. It is not going anywhere, if made illegal it will just go back-ally, with many more babies thrown in dumpsters.
My mother took in MANY foster children who were abused and unwanted. If you really care about these unwanted children adopt! I find it interresting that many MALE pro-lifers have passels of kids, but don’t foster or adopt kids, WHY??
I truly wish abortion was never needed. I don’t think it should be used as a birth control method. I think with the right legislation the number of abortions could be reduced. There can be a middle ground, unless your a fanatic. There should be a choice for women who’s lives are in danger or can’t handle the stress from having a child born of rape or incest.
August 12th, 2004 at 6:54 am
Our population is growing in the United States because of immigration, not because of birth rates. From what I have read here, there has been precious little homework done on the “pro-death” side and quite a lot of emotional hysterics.
The Bible says we should “judge righteous judgement.” That includes discerning what is right or wrong, and clinging to the right while exposing the evil. If abortion — and the result of abortion, i.e. dead babies — was a good thing there wouldn’t be such a hue and cry from the deathers when the truth is told about it.
August 12th, 2004 at 8:49 am
Yeah! Way to go feeding the hellfire with people who will never, ever believe in the love of Christ, thanks to you who pretend to know it. I am pro-life, I am a born-again Christian, but I also believe that in the day of judgment you will be held personally responsible for the damnation of Sara Phares if she can never see past your hatred. Jesus didn’t stage protests against Matthew or the woman at the well - he quietly showed them his power and love. You’re treating Sara the way Satan treated Job. In fact, it’s such a good impersonation I have to wonder who is really behind your plots…
August 12th, 2004 at 10:07 am
Kelly HOffman, if you will look closer at scripture, Jesus always offered grace to the humble and the law to the proud. (James 4:6, 10). More on this principle is found at http://www.livingwaters.com (listen to Hell’s best kept secret and I think you’ll find much you agree with). May God bless you for your faith and your love for the lost - it’s clear you care about Sara too. As do I. I pray she repents and is saved.
August 15th, 2004 at 1:16 am
I happened to scan through a copy of the Rolling Stones mag (out of boredom at my non believing inlaws) and came across the article about your ministry in Wichita. I am very inspired and thankful for your boldness and obedience to the Word of God. As much as a magazine like that would like to portray Christians in a bad light, the truth of the matter is that sin is ugly and the Light exposes. Keep up the good work, commissioned by Christ! I will keep you brothers and sisters in my prayers and also pray that God will break our hearts with the things that break His. As for these other believers complaining about your methods I would say that it is quiet refreshing that there are still obedient servants not willing to compromise the truth in order to please man. “Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves” Romans 14:22b
James 5:20
remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins. Onward Christian soldiers!
I can remember when I was about 8 years old and saw graphic images of an aborted fetus and real phots and descriptions of the process at a Pro Life info booth. This opened my eyes to the truth and out of knowledge (in addition to Biblical truth)I never fell for the lie of abortion. Women can’t make informed decisions without knowing the reality of the process of murdering their baby. God bless you and the many lives you are saving!
August 18th, 2004 at 7:20 pm
Truthfully, I am a pro-choice pagan teenager. I did a whole paper on abortion and why it should remain legal my freshman year of highschool so I know much about abortion.
People like you who do cruel actions such as this are wrong to do so, in my opinion. The way you go about things makes me sick. I find the actions done to this poor woman a pathetic way to go about things.
In the USA, people have freedoms and the right to exercise those freedoms. If a woman chooses to have an abortion, it’s her choice, and she had the right to go to a clinic and recieve good care. Have any of you watched the movie, ” The Cedar House Rules” ? If you have, you would remember the scene where a woman died from a bad abortion because they were illegal. Abortions will happen no matter what. Would you rather have women, some of them good Christians, die due to lack of good medical care when they needed it?
I have had a family member who is a very good upstanding christian mother recieve an abortion due to medical reasons in the past. I was there for her. Most of you do not know about having to consider having an abortion, especially men.
I will be pro-choice forever, and I pray to the lord and lady that you people will realize the errors of your actions and just how much mroe damage you do to your cause than good.
~ Cas, aka Kittyn ~
August 19th, 2004 at 8:08 am
Did you use swearing in your posts or use personal attacks?
August 19th, 2004 at 6:30 pm
you’re sick! I am so thankful that the rollingstone magazine published this story. It is astonishing to see that in this day and age a man like you is going to so much trouble to put people out of a job. Have you thought about the economy? or have you ever stopped to think about the women who need these abortions? I have had an abortion and i think it was the best decision of my life, and i continue to attend church every sunday. The good thing about being catholic is that all you have to do is ask and your sins shall be forgiven. I am 20 and i was having protected sex, things happen. I even chose to have the child knowing that i would not be able to give it the life it deserves, or myself the life I deserve. Upon going to the doctors I was told my child was not healthy and would not live a “normal” healthy life like others would. I would never wish that upon a child. It was the best thing I did. I’m young i can still enjoy my life, and in a few years I will be the best mother a child can have. Thank goodness your american, because people like you don’t belong in Canada. STAY AWAY!
August 21st, 2004 at 9:58 am
God bless you Troy and all those couragous defenders of inncence at ORW! Thank you for being strong enough to take all the personal attacks and sometimes even physical violence of the pro-aborts. Thank you for being a voice for all the unborn who have no voice. You are a huge hero to me and also an inspiration. Keep up the good work!
Love,Kris
August 22nd, 2004 at 9:36 am
I read the Rolling Stone article, and I am thoroughly sickened by your tactics. How is this congruent with the Biblical command to “love thy neighbor as thyself?” Most troubling, I accessed the website of the “provocateurs” mentioned in the article, and I discovered an interesting little tidbit. It seems that someone in California claims that a certain director of Operation Rescue-West once impregnated a woman and paid for her to have an abortion. If that is indeed the case, then hang your head in shame, Mr. Newman. Humble yourself before your God and others. Discover a birth control method that is non-abortifacient, 100% effective, and readily available to all, irregardless of their religious beliefs. Until that day comes, sir, you have no right to invade the privacy of others or to cause acute anguish to those who, like myself, underwent an abortion and now harbor moral qualms. I will never use that despicable “m” word to describe myself, other women who faced the same agony (I was only 16), doctors who sincerely believe that they are helping their patients, and more than a few Supreme Court justices from 1973. 30 years later, many of us now believe that Roe Vs. Wade has left an imperfect legacy. For myself, it has enacted a legacy of emotions that is difficult to describe. However, until that day comes that we are able to prevent pregnancy before it occurs, instead of after ir occurs, I must humble myself as well. I must have compassion for my fellow women who have also endured the same wrenching situation. And if that “tidbit” I discovered on another website is true, sir, I would encourage you to get on your knees and pray for forgiveness for your unspeakable cruelty - and lurking hypocrisy.
August 22nd, 2004 at 2:29 pm
Rachel, many pro-lifers are so BECAUSE they HAVE been involved with or had an abortion. They HAVE gotton on their knees and prayed for forgiveness. And then they decided to take their hurt and use it to help other men and women not have to suffer the way that they have. Also many people know it’s too late for their own aborted babies, so they try to save other babies from the same violent death. I think that that is extremely admirable and takes enormous self-sacrifice and compassion. I truly hope the best for you and pray that you will be able to fully heal from your own experience.
August 23rd, 2004 at 9:33 am
Kris: Thank you for your concern; I greatly appreciate it. I have read at least one of your earlier responses to another post, so I certainly feel a kinship and a profound empathy for you. (Empathy does not mean criticism; it is not tantamount to pity, nor does it involve passing judgment. It simply entails a profound commonality that binds so many of us.) As I wish to avoid hypocrisy myself, may I please clarify something at this time? I did not seek to criticize Mr. Newman or anyone else who may or may not have paid for an abortion in years past. As someone who has had an abortion, it is clearly not my place to pass judgment. That is not what is driving my anger and hurt at this time.
The scriptures (at least the parts of scripture that make sense to me) tell us to “love others as we love ourselves.” Moreover, Jesus has always told me to “rejoice when others rejoice — anguish when others anguish.” In my view, these are edicts we must live by — we owe it to our Creator for His (or Her) gift of life itself. How are these biblical admonitions compatible with the following: 1) rummaging through the trash of clinic workers; harassing them (or their spouses) at their place of employment; 2) invading the privacy of their homes by behaving hatefully (i.e., carrying cruel signs) and sending threatening mail; 3) Verbally harassing clinic patients and their parents; 4) hurling vile epithets about Dr. Tiller; 5) driving a “Truth Truck” with horrendous pictures that I cannot bear to describe here; and 5) videotaping clinic patients at their time of peril.
Kris, I cannot be more succinct: tactics like these leave me cold. I have seen footage of Mr. Newman videotaping individuals at the Wichita Women’s Clinic, and the look in his eyes was frightening. I must question his motivations and cannot help but detect the hint of misogyny in his soul. (Why does he not picket the homes of men who impregnate women and take no responsibility for their actions?) In truth, Mr. Newman remains a perplexing figure to me, and his words and actions hurt my heart.
Finally, I must excoriate Mr. Newman’s barraging of pregnant girls and their mothers (“What kind of grandmother kills her own grandchild?”) For your information, Mr. Newman, my own mother paid for my abortion nearly 30 years ago, and she was (and is), quite simply, the most beautiful, sensitive, sweet, selfless, giving woman I could ever hope to have as my parent. She converted to Catholicism in 1977, and so her beliefs about this event have dramatically changed. I deeply regret the pain my abortion caused her, and this sorrow is easy to define. More difficult and problematic are my own moral qualms. I do not intend to discuss the reasons for these concerns, as they are deeply personal. It is not my place to purport to know how every woman who has ever had an abortion deals with this tragedy. Many good and decent people harbor no guilt whatsoever, and it is wholly inappropriate for me to criticize these good people. Moreover, every woman’s sexuality is unique to her, as are the life events that caused her pregnancy.
Kris, I do not know what your religious affiliation is, nor is it any of my business. However, I would encourage you to listen to the Pope’s recent exhortation to women who have had abortions. Speaking words of surpassing eloquence and compassion, he conveys God’s love and the Church’s “understanding of the difficult circumstances which contributed to the abortion” Further, he states that “these unborn children are residing with the Lord.” I would encourage you, further, to ask yourself the following questions: Was I acting in a spirit of violence, moral vagrancy and/or waywardness when I had the abortion? Was I an uncaring and heedless woman? It is my heartfelt conviction that you were not. I certainly was not exuding these deficits, and I’m quite sure you weren’t, either. Peace to you.
August 23rd, 2004 at 10:41 pm
rachel
i think your concerns are rather cloudy, and the “coldness” that you supposedly feel about troy is rather misplaced.
the Biblical reference to “rejoicing” and “weeping” is not directed towards any and all people in any and all situations. it is directed towards believers within the Body of Christ. church members should rejoice when their fellow members rejoice, and weep when they weep. it is not Biblical to take that verse, or any other, and apply it to how people everywhere should relate.
as far as the ‘look’ in mr. newman’s eye….gee, rachel, you seem to have a lot of time on your hands to study others…. i wonder if you could express similar outrage at the look in tiller the killer’s eyes, as he tears a baby limb from limb, or tosses its remains into his incinerator….that is, if you could ever get a look at those eyes.
try being outraged at the people who kill babies and are obscenely proud of it, rather than those who are seeking to expose them. envision, if you will, a time when tiller repents and gives up his bloody work. do you think he will be angry with troy for having done what he did in helping to expose him? i think not. once a sinner sincerely repents, the things that brought him to repentance will not be at issue at all.
for instance, Jesus, being God, never sinned. but there were times when He called people snakes, hypocrites, and children of the devil. if anything could’ve saved those people, it would have been the words of our Lord. and had they repented, the sting of his rebuke would not have been a source of pain, but rather, appreciated by them, as having the effect of waking them up….alas, His words did NOT move those people.
and the efforts of troy and company may or may not move those who are involved in this hideous work. we pray it will. but please do not condemn the messenger because his message is uncomfortable to you.
August 24th, 2004 at 7:37 am
Jerry: I can see why you are angry with me. But I was motivated out of compassion for clinic workers, pregnant women, and other women like myself - women for whom the aftermath of abortion has left a singular (and painful) legacy. It is my heartfelt belief that Mr. Newman (and his colleagues - both past and present) have hurt many people. He has hurt me, Jerry - even after the span of nearly 30 years and the healing balm of religious commitment. You are free to worship your God as you see fit, and I will do the same. And Jesus tells me to….well…do you remember the biblical commandment that “women shall learn in silence in all submission?” My goodness - I’m not following that edict literally - and it has nothing to do with male/female gender subjugation in my life. Rather, it has everything to do with being humble and prayerful……compassionate and kind to my sisters (both before and after me) who have faced or will face the same situation. I have engaged in much soul-searching this summer, Jerry, and it has truly been my summer of reckoning. Jesus tells me that I must write to our lawmakers and beseech them, from the bottom of my heart, to provide funding for more non-abortifacient - and precise - methods of family planning. I will not elaborate upon the reasons for my own moral qualms on this website, but I will do so to my congressmen (or congresswomen). It is still difficult to define - exactly - the depth of my feelings and my pain. But what that is is something more profound than Operation Rescue and/or our Supreme Court could have envisioned 31 years ago.
August 28th, 2004 at 9:01 pm
rachel
i don’t see how operation rescue can cause you “pain”….all they are doing is telling the truth! i’m sorry for your pain, but there are many fine organizations that specialize in helping women just like you overcome your hurt and regret….i will list a few for you, but remember that this organization, ORW, has links to similar organizations on its home page, and cares very deeply for women just like you.
http://www.feministsforlife.org
http://www.helpafterabortion.com
http://www.ramahinternational.oorg
http://www.flash.net/~woman49/
http://www.care-net.org
http://www.afterabortion.org
http://www.rachelsvineyard.com
please contact one or more of these organizations and seek the help that other women who’ve gone through this can provide - and then, if you are able, try to put your experiences to good us. but stop worrying about the government providing contraception to people….that isn’t the issue - the issue is whether or not it remains legal to slaughter innocent children.
by the way, the scripture about women remaining silent….again, rachel, with all due respect, you aren’t very knowledgeable about the Bible. this verse was written by paul to timothy, in regards to how things within the local church should be conducted. it does not apply universally.
incidentally, i’m not ‘angry’ with you. but you are angry with troy and all he does to help this cause. maybe you are not aware of all he does to help women just like you…i have no problem with troy’s work and i think if you come full circle, so to speak, you will ultimately feel the same….he has tremendous compassion for all the various groups of people you mentioned - but he is following a basic Biblical principle, best expressed, i think, by john macarthur - “real love is confrontational”.
as i previously pointed out, the end result of a sinner repenting may come about through prayer, by kindness, or by example - or it may come about from direct confrontation or rebuke. different methods work in different situations. in proverbs it says “open rebuke is better than secret love”.
mr. newman and his group are simply confronting america with the bloodshed that is abortion, in all its ugliness, and rather than be upset with him for reminding us of our complicity, let’s direct our outrage to those who support it, encourage it, and make money from it, and also, those politicians, like john kerry, who vow to keep it legal at any cost.
September 1st, 2004 at 12:38 pm
Jerry: You just won’t give me a break, will you? Okay, okay……
Clearly, I am not a biblical scholar.
But seriously now, I want to thank you for listing the organizations and their websites - this is greatly appreciated. I have accessed the first site you provided, and I find that their philosophies are quite in line with my own: Women need a better way. Men need a better way. Children need to be cherished and loved, too.
I shall now attempt to find the best forum for my activism and strengths. Ron, ORW’s webmaster, told me about a program called True Love Waits. That, to be sure, is an issue about which I harbor absolutely no moral difficulties. Our young people should not be engaging in this sort of behavior, and inviting tragedy. And I’m not only referring to pregnancy, incidentally…..
One of the pitfalls of the so-called “sexual revolution” of the 1960s was its subtle disregard of the profound differences between men and women. I was blissfully naive about this so many years ago - but I learned, oh, how I learned. High school is no time for young girls to be living in abject terror of pregnancy, weeping in secret when you’ve dodged a bullet - and ravaged by grief when you haven’t. It should be a time for maturation, for learning and evolving and carefree innocence. It shouldn’t be about years of unremitting emotional agony, and I should know.
My parish priest/confessor once told me, “It’s a good thing to you turned to God instead of becoming wayward,” or words to that effect. Jerry, I’m going to have to return to some kind of faith, because this issue is something I can’t handle alone. I need the guidance of the sweetest, noblest man who ever lived. A man whose picture on a prayer card I have kept with me, throughout illness, despair, triumph, several moves, and divorce from Roman Catholicism. I never did really get into praying the Rosary and found it tedious, but I certainly cherished the picture on the front. I was (and am) attracted to the kindness in Jesus’ eyes, to his Sacred Heart which seeks to inform us all, and his goodness and decency - and his strength.
Jerry, thank you again for the URLs you listed. I’m sure I’ll be revisiting them often in the ensuing months.
September 11th, 2004 at 4:45 pm
Hi, ya’ll!
Was just skimming over these posts…haven’t read all yet, but one post did get my attention, the one where Katie, obviously a keen student in Misapplied Theology 101, lobbed quite a gallstone at Troy, et al, in invoking John 8:1-11 to JUDGE (?!) and condemn pro-life rescue activity.
This took enormous gall, seeing, how the context of that remark involved a woman subjected to potentially lethal bodily harm as a result of sexual immorality by people who were part of her involvment in said activity to begin with. Thus, Christ’s imperative in v. 7 would apply much more to the abortion industry than to rescuers, seeing how
a. the abortion industry denies that there is even such a thing as absolute morality, and therefore sin;
b.) the abortion industry encourages sexual immorality (the better to make a killing with, my dears!) and then subjects to potentially lethal bodily harm via abortion not only the women who have thus become pregnant but their innocent children.
Rescuers, on the other hand, are trying to save the women and children from the abortionist’s violence, do not claim to be sinless ( at least not the ones i’ve met, including Troy), and do not intentionally or knowingly harm pregnant moms.
So get your facts straight BEFORE you start throwing stones yourself ?
And, what could be more JUDGEMENTAL (gasp!) than sentencing an innocent baby to death by torture with no trial, no jury, no appeal and, usually, no stay of execution?
think about it.
baby roedoe & friends
September 11th, 2004 at 5:43 pm
“The enormous amount of medical malpractice [the common euphemism for abortion] that exists and flourishes, almost unchecked, in the city of New York, is a theme for most serious consideration. Thousands of human beings are thus murdered before they have seen the light of this world, and thousands upon thousands more of adults are irremediably robbed in constitution, health and happiness.” (“The Evil of the Age,” The New York Times)
“The Civilization of today is opposed to babies, and its basest product is the abortionist. He is the human hyena, and the living, quivering flesh of foolish or unfortunate womanhood is the grave from which he tears his prey. He lives upon the crushed and mangled bodies of tender, breathless infants.” — (“Hellish Earl”, The National Police Gazette, late 1800’s)
“An abortion kills the life of a baby after it has begun. It is dangerous to your life and health. It may make you sterile so that when you want a child you cannot have it.” - (Planned Barrenhood, a.k.a. Planned “Parenthood”, in a brochure on birth control in the mid-1960’s. Funny how their tune has changed since Roe v. Wade and Doe v. Bolton has channeled millions of dollars into their coffers from legalized baby-killing. This is an amazingly factual statement for those masters at propaganda…so accurate, that PPs refusal to repeat it since 1973 is the only thing about it that has changed since it was published.
Ce plus ca change ce plus la meme chose…
Oh, incidentally, to the person who cannot tell the difference between ORW and Al Quaeda…yes, there is a VAST difference between individuals and groups who deliberately keep in the dark, and target unwitting, innocent lives for destruction, and those who deliberately seek to enlighten, warn, and save those lives. The abortion industry and its groupies/lackeys have FAR more in common with Al Quaeda than does ORW, OSA, et al. If you find this revelation a bit much to “wrap your mind around”, as the expression goes, you may find it helpful to work up to it from a simpler excercise in discernment, such as comparing your backside to your elbow, a hole in the ground, etc.
All the best,
s. whatley
September 11th, 2004 at 5:53 pm
Hello, Troy, et al…
Just a note for the “pro-lifer” who is more “concerned”, apparently, about small children seeing gory pictures than about small children BECOMING the subjects of those pictures:
Yes, small children do find the pictures disturbing because what is in them is horrifying.
But this can be dealt with. I believe that a small child, recognizing a brutally murdered baby, is mostly distressed by the question of how likely (s)he is to be so victimized; and that, once the parent or guardian assures him/her that the fate of the murdered baby will not befall him/her, his/her thoughts will then go, naturally, to how to help it not happen to other babies.
This is, unfortunately, where many adults drop the ball. Since these photos, horrid as they are, do have a proven track record of turning abortion-bound mothers and their children toward better options, the child will naturally feel safer with an adult who denounces the violence in the pictures, not the people who are exposing it.
jls
September 12th, 2004 at 5:40 pm
To “Baby Roedoe & friends”,
Good points, all, re: John 8:2-11; if i may add one more:
It seems to me particularly blasphemous to invoke Christ’s command re: stone-throwing in defense of people who despise its companion imperative, to the woman, to “go and sin no more.” Any woman headed into a child-killing chamber is much more likely to hear this latter sentiment from the pro-lifers; the pro-deathers, on the other hand, chant, like blood-thirsty hyenas, “Come, and sin some more”!, and the abortionist laughs all the way to the bank with the blood money, while the woman who “chose” to listen to the pro-death cant bleeds, emotionally and often physically, all the way home…if she is able to do that much.
Oh, a reminder to all prolifers out there who may read this: make sure that you know the name of the nearest emergency room WITH A TRAUMA UNIT, and that you instruct the women staggering out post-abort and their companions to go there AT ONCE, to get examined. Last November, a woman died from hemmorrhagic shock, resulting from a uterine perforation, within 10 hours of the “safe and legal” abortion during which her uterus was perforated. (Uterine perforation is one of the most common abortion complications, since most induced abortions involve some sort of sharp instrument and/or powerful suction device weilded BLINDLY inside a rather cramped area). About 6 hours after the abortion, her temperature plummeted to 94 degrees. Her concerned husband called the killing center to ask them about this and was told that it was nothing to worry about…(the stock, and often false, answer typically given by killing staffers re: post-abortion complaints; a real health care professional would, of course, a.) recognized that a body temperature of 94, unless deliberately induced by a real doctor for legitimate reasons, indicates that the patient is at death’s door and knocking, and, b.) would say so…) Fortunately, he did not heed the proabort’s badvice and called an ambulance; unfortunately, it was too late, and this young mother of 4 other children died in the ambulance en route to the E.R. (How’s that, again, about professed proabort “concern” about children already born ???!!! A prolifer who dissuades a mother who has other, already born children, does THEM a service by saving possibly her life; definitely some aspect of her health. Induced abortion is intensely emotionally traumatic for any woman, and i have yet to hear or read of any post-abortive woman whose maternal abilities were improved by killing one of her children. All the testimony and evidence i’ve read points the other way…)
And, that you let her and/or her companion know that if her E.R. examination reveals any injury resulting from the abortion, she does have a right to legal recourse. The consent and liability release forms women are made to sign are typically tools of the trade to intimidate her into believing that she cannot sue them for anything they do to her; they have virtually no real value in malpractice cases but it is still a good idea to advise women entering abortion mills NOT to sign any waiver of her rights, statement of indemnification of the “clinic” personnel (all of whom can be enjoined in an abortion malpractice lawsuit, if they were there at the time of her injury). ABORTION MAY BE LEGAL, BUT FRAUD, INJURY, AND MALPRACTICE ARE NOT; CONSENT DOES NOT EXCUSE MALPRACTICE; LEGAL ASSISTANCE IS AVAILABLE AT 1-800-U CAN SUE OR 1-888-9 WOMENS.(E.R. workers, incidentally, see botched LEGAL abortion victims all the time; and if she tells them what has just happened to her, they will know what to look for where, and she can thus make shorter work for them and, therefore, a better chance of recovery for herself)
Seeing how an earlier post of mine has been deleted (too much truth, apparently), I shall again encourage anyone who still buys the “safe and legal” lie to go to lifedynamics.com, access the Blackmun Wall, and READ ALL OF IT.
For anyone who still buys the “pro-choice” lie,
Consider this: 46 million innocent Americans have been tortured to death (by the 8th week of life, a preborn child is sensitive to touch — read, CAN FEEL PAIN) since Roe v. Wade and Doe v. Bolton cruelly and unjustly decriminalized killing preborn children. NONE of them were given a choice; ALL of them would have rejected abortion if they had. (For proof of this, the film The Silent Scream can be viewed online.)
Then, too, informed consent laws have been fought tooth and nail by –surprise, surprise!– America’s “champions of choice” where and whenever they have been introduced…
Virtually no women ever get pregnant on purpose so they can get an abortion…which does rather vindicate, i think, F. Matthewes-Green’s statement to the effect that a woman DOES NOT “choose” an abortion like she chooses an ice cream cone or a Porsche, but rather like an animal caught in a trap “chooses” to chew off the hind leg clenched in the trap. (How liberating, in the long run, is life without a leg?)
Anyone who has been involved in pro-life street work for more than a few days has encountered the bitter irony of hearing “my body my choice” flipped at him/her by abortion-bound women leaping/swaggering into the local deathcamp; then hearing her pitiful attempts at consoling, and justifying, herself with “You don’t understand, i HAD to do it” as she comes limping/staggering out…often crying, bleeding, vomiting, as she comes. How much more bitterly is this irony felt by the woman, not because she had a choice but because she really felt that, because of lack of support, fear of abandonment, etc., she did not.
And i have, myself, witnessed a grown man fall to the pavement of a killing center parking lot weeping because he had — you guessed it — NO CHOICE, and no voice, in the pending, cold-blooded, premeditated murder of his little boy or girl. One killing center, i’m told, has a small magnolia tree planted in a small courtyard in front of it, in memory of a police officer killed when that center was bombed several years ago.
With all due respects to that officer, his widow, and other law enforcement personnel, whenever i think of that magnolia tree i cannot help thinking that a greater loss than a fallen officer is the loss of honor for the police officers’ oath “to protect and serve the innocent”. Where is the magnolia lamenting that? I recently read of two fathers who, in the same year, committed suicide. One was a police officer; the other was a college student. Both these men left notes stating that their final acts of self-destruction were due to their inability to cope with the grief and guilt over the loss of their children to induced abortion. Where is the magnolia for THAT officer?…
The phrase “pro-choice” become even more cruelly cynical in view of the fact that, of the entire U.S. population registered to vote, exactly NINE were ALLOWED to vote on Roe/Doe…and ALL of them had been born!!!
ABORTION KILLS MORE THAN A BABY.
Abortion never has, really been, about a “woman’s right to choose”, but about a doctor’s right to KILL, to determine who lives and who dies. But after the exposure of the Nazi atrocities to the world of applied eugenics (see eugenics-watch.com for the rest of that story), some catch phrase had to be coined to make a medical holocaust acceptable, if not attractive, to the American public…and what would resonate better than an appeal to one’s sense of autonomy/rights? But the inventor of that phrase, Dr. Bernard Nathanson, knew what a cruel hoax it was when he and arch-eugenicist/population control freak Larry Lader(co-founders of NARRAL)coined it.
Oh, and since next month is Breast Cancer Awareness month…Yes, Virginia, there is a link.
The number of independent, worldwide studies linking early abortion, esp. of a first pregnancy, with greatly increased risk of breast cancer, is now 29, despite “loud & proud” but unsubstantiated claims to the contrary by prodeath groups. It is not the leading cause of breast cancer; however, it is the most preventable one because it is a choice. Think about it whenever you don, or see, those pink ribbons…for more information on this, please see abortionbreastcancer.com.
slainte/shalom/L’CHAIM,
lime5
September 13th, 2004 at 6:40 pm
Stacy, (and anyone else interested) I have read your comments in favor of leaving the option of torturing a baby conceived through rape or incest to death open to his/her mother, and have the following thoughts to put on the table concerning this.
One factor commonly left out of this emotion-laden equation is the sheer danger of induced abortion FOR THE MOTHER. According to a remarkably objective/agenda-free study, abortion is 4 TIMES more dangerous for women than childbirth, and the circumstances under which the child in the balance is conceived do not alter this fact.(for details on this, please see http://www.afterabortion.org/PAR/V8/n2/finland.html.)
And I often wonder, when i hear this view advanced, how the militant feminists (sometimes, and accurately, referred to as “feminazis”, as opposed to the early, founding feminists such as Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Susan B. Anthony, et al, who were staunchly opposed to abortion)dropped the ball on this one.
One used to hear much from this bunch referencing all men as “potential rapists”. Have these anti-women NEVER heard of DNA, paternity tests? If they really want to reduce the instance of rape, how on earth can they countenance killing the star witness against the rapist? Rapists do not generally wake up one morning and just decide, of their own accord, to stop raping and go do something kinder and gentler; they have to be stopped. I’m told that the same is true of incest perps. This generally involves litigation, prosecution, jail, or lethal force, though i’m told that martial arts, pepper spray, strategically placed knees, carkeys and other things are also effective preventive measures in some individual instances.
And why capitally punish an innocent child for a crime which (s)he did not commit? This is not likely to stop rape; punishing the rapist is a better idea. So abortion in rape/incest cases is extremely counter-productive. It is, in my view at least, both a grievous perversion/miscarriage, and an obstruction, of real justice for everyone involved.
Most acts of rape do not result in pregnancy; wrong time of the month, vast differences between the dynamics of making mutually volitional love and being violated, and other factors. But I have heard/read testimonies of women who did become pregnant by rape and their stories aren’t, on the bottom line, much different from other women faced with unplanned pregnancies; those who aborted typically wish they had not, and those who gave their children life did not have those regrets, whether they decided, for their own personal reasons, to keep and raise the child themselves, or place him/her for adoption.
Some, who decided that because they had been raped, abortion was either their best or only option, testified that they later felt more regret; they discovered that the abortion did not unrape them, but felt more grievously violated and betrayed by the abortion than they had even by the rape. This is understandble in view of the fact that, as traumatic, vicious, demeaning and cruel as rape is, it is murder is the ULTIMATE imposition of one person’s will upon another, against that other’s will, and to his/her hurt.
I have several friends and acquaintances who have been raped and, while it is hardly something any of us would recommend, they have managed to recover sufficiently to lead productive lives which they do not want to end. That is obviously not the case with my friends/acquaintances who have been killed or murdered.
BOTTOM LINE HERE: INDUCED ABORTION, though touted as such by many proaborts, IS NOT, in reality, A RESET BUTTON ON A WOMAN’S LIFE! It is a violent assault on a very delicate, sensitive, intimate part of her body and soul proven to be extremely unforgiving of shabby treatment, much less violent assault, whereas giving birth is the natural end of a natural process activated at conception. This is another reason why induced abortion is INTRINSICALLY dangerous for women in ways that childbirth, or even spontaneous miscarriage, grievously traumatic as that can be,are not.
The one event in the last 40-50 years or so that has somewhat reduced the physical dangers of killing preborn children to their mothers was the discovery of antibiotics, which has prevented some of the raging infections that can kill a post-abortive mother. However, other recognized abortion complications such as hemorrhage, embolism, shock, various adverse reactions to anesthesia, retained fetal tissue, injury to reproductive and other organs, and much, much, more, are just as dangerous as they always were.
Ironically, and contrary to the rants & ravings of the coathanger cotillion, the event that has most INCREASED the danger of induced abortion in the last 40 years, at least in the U.S. and probably elsewhere as well, has been its decriminalization.
Prior to Roe, most illegal abortions were performed in doctor’s offices, using many of the same basic type of instruments and substances as are legally used now. They were typically called “D&C’s”, and the smaller victim just wasn’t mentioned in the medical records. Because they were illegal, the abortionists were generally much more careful then, when a botched abortion could more easily get them a jail term than now, when the allure of big bucks tends, i understand, to make it even more of an assembly-line sort of operation. I’ve read of one abortionist who boasted that he could “do” some 8 or more suction abortions in one hour, and I’m sure he isn’t the only one. . .Jack the Ripper, Freddy Kruger,Ted Bundy, et al, never had it so good.
If you really are concerned about helping reduce rape, especially statutory rape, stop by http://www.childpredators.com. They have some resources there that I think you’ll find both interesting and helpful.
S. Jolnes
September 13th, 2004 at 6:57 pm
Troy and friends!
I do hope you’ve contacted Rolling Stone and thanked them for their part in giving YHWH occasion to BLESS YOUR SOCKS OFF, according to Matthew 5:11 !
But do “be careful…you never know what kind of nuts these things will draw.” For more on this, you may want to stop by abortionviolence.com and take the abortionist pop quiz.
Blessings!
Lou
September 21st, 2004 at 2:00 pm
To Stacy,
Your claim that “there can be a middle ground” expresses, to me, the patent schizoid absurdity of much abortion-related sentiment in America.
If abortion were an merely abstract issue, one could negotiate, prevaricate, pary & parse, etc.
But it isn’t. It is an ACT of violence which intentionally takes an innocent, physical/ material/irreplaceable human life; and here, there is no middle ground. The baby is either alive or dead. “Middle ground” here might be called “very, very sick” … but since even the very ill have such a higher recovery rate than the dead, I don’t think that will wash, either.
Last but hardly least, the matter of “finding middle ground” is addressed in no uncertain terms in I Kings 3:16-28.
September 22nd, 2004 at 10:01 am
This is for Stephanie, you honestly need to look in your medical books. I am in medical college right now, an honey the baby is only a “mass of cells” for 1 week. ONE WEEK, not WEEKS!! By the time you find out you’re pregnant the baby is a baby, (heartbeat and everything by 5 weeks!) And in all of the medical books I have been studying in, there is NOT 1 spot that says the baby is a part of the mother. It is merely residing inside the womans body. If you want to go GOD bashing that’s fine too. You are entitled to your opinion. This country of murdering children does entitle you to that, but I WAS raped just 4 years ago and I did NOT take the morning after pill. I stood up for my beliefs. I didn’t end up pregnant, but I wouldn’t have killed my child if I had. I wouldn’t punish my unborn baby because of what his/her father did. If you don’t believe in GOD, I will pray that you will one day. I will pray for your salvation. I don’t care who you are, man or woman, black, white; NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO KILL ANYONE, FOR ANY REASON. Using your excuses for abortion is just that. EXCUSES FOR MURDER!!!! Oh, and by the way, I was also a mother while still in high school. I have 3 children, a nice place to live, a wonderful husband, and I’m going to College. (I am by no means rich. We live solely off of my husband’s income until I finish school.) I just thought that I’d tell you about that girl who gets pregnant early on, and that girl who gets raped. She is me, and I am doing just fine. And so are my beautiful kids who all say their prayers every night before closing their gorgeous little angel eyes. I have NEVER had an abortion, I was not born rich, my father still works 2 jobs to survive. So don’t try to think I am privileged either. I will pray for your eyes to be opened. Your heart to be saved.
September 25th, 2004 at 10:40 pm
sunshyne
preach it girl!
October 11th, 2004 at 5:30 am
Hello.
I am a 26-year old man from Germany.
All my life I have been against Abortion.
I think you are doing the right thing by exposing the abortinonist people to the public. Many persons in this forum complained about how “inhumane” this would be.
While this has some point to it, those people seem to be blind for how inhumane and evil the work of every abortion “doctor” or minions is.
I always ask pro-abortionists: Are you a 100 percent sure that this little “cluster of cells” is not a human being? - Of course you are not. So you are running on a “however low it may be” risk of killing a human being. For what reason?
Not because you have been raped, or have an ill child… That is 10 percent at maximum.
No, people abort because they dont want to pay for another child, because they dont feel old enough to be responsible, even, what I have heard of, because
THEY ARE PLANNING TO GO AN A VACATION NEXT YEAR.
One can hardly imagine a more devillish reason for an abortion, but there is one, the most evil reason of all: “It is my principle that you should have the freedom to do whatever you want (…the freedom of choice)”
Since when does any human have the FREEDOM to choice who is going to live and who not?
That is Hybris. That is madness. That is, abandoning civilisation, religion, morale, your heart.
That is, to speak in biblical pictures, (although I share the opinion of one person that it’s strategically sometimes bad to fullfill the clichee of being a religious zealot) Lucifer, who made his free choice of commanding hell rather than serve in heaven (which includes nature).
The human race has already gone way too far in their mad quest for breaking all of nature’s golden laws. Driven by hatred against themselves they abuse their intelligence and the noble gift of science to destroy the physical and psychological nature.
I know, I am getting pathetic.
Mr. Newman, please ensure that your love for the people working at the abortion mill is not just words. Please dont give in to hatred. Please always remember that it is not worth anything to rescue the world for the price of your own soul.
I know what I am talking about because I struggle everyday with myself in order to not hate the abortionists.
To be honest, I cannot help it. I hate those “doctors”. But for their nurses, there is still hope.
October 12th, 2004 at 11:24 am
ARE WE PRO-FEELINGS OR ARE WE PRO-LIFE? WE ARE NOT GOING TO WIN THIS STRUGGLE BY BEING LIKED. QUIT BEING SISSY’S AND LETS FIGHT.
October 19th, 2004 at 10:24 am
“This is understandble in view of the fact that, as traumatic, vicious, demeaning and cruel as rape is, it is murder is the ULTIMATE imposition of one person’s will upon another, against that other’s will, and to his/her hurt.”
Actually, I disagree. I would rather be murdered than raped. I would rather be murdered three times over than raped. Countless women who have been raped will tell you that they *wish they would die*–that death would be preferrable to having been violated in such a terrible manner.
And for the record…if my mother had been raped, or had had an unexpected pregnancy that would have interefered with her health or well-being, I would be willing to sacrifice my life so that SHE could live. It’s too bad that I wouldn’t be able to tell her not to feel guilty. You go, Mom.
Also, I have a question to those who are absolutely opposed to abortion, even in cases of rape: what if the person raped is still a child? It’s possible for girls to get pregnant at 11, 12, 13 years old. Would you force them to go through with a pregnancy when they had done nothing wrong? Isn’t a pregnancy at that age extremely detrimental not only to the girl’s physical health, but to her psychological health as well? I’d think giving the baby up for adoption would in some ways be more traumatic than ending that life before it was sentient. The child-mother would have no idea if my child would go to a good home, whether her child would be abused or brought up immorally. The alternative, though, short of abortion, would be to keep the child-a TERRIBLE thing to force on a girl so young.
I don’t support abortion at whim. But it seems to me that forcing a child to go through pregnancy and motherhood at 11 or 12 is extremely cruel.
Again, had that been my mother, I would have been more than willing to give up the ghost and let her have a future. I’d let her have my life. Graciously. Willingly. And I am a person who is absolutely in love with living.
October 19th, 2004 at 11:04 pm
areaph
the problem with your overly simplistic reasoning is as follows:
98% of abortions have nothing to do with rape, incest, life of the mother, or fetal abnormality.
98% of abortions are for purely selfish reasons, performed on perfectly healthy mothers carrying perfectly healthy babies.
there is an old saying, as true today as ever.
“hard cases make bad law”. and this is what legal abortion is. the 2% of abortions that are commonly referred to as ‘exceptions’ are now the rule, and 100% of abortions are allowed because of the 2% of exceptional situations. and that is ridiculous. it is so tiresome for people like you to trot out these rare exceptions and try to make abortion seem ‘right’ or ‘good’.
moving on, most rapes do not result in pregnancy because of the trauma involved. in addition, you claim that most women prefer death to being raped. interesting how you can speak for ‘most women’. especially since post-abortion syndrome is rampant in america, and it plagues thousands upon thousands of women (and even men) and often leads to thoughts of suicide, and miscellaneous tendencies toward self-destructive behavior. a woman is designed to be a life-giver, not a life-taker, and whenever she betrays that natural yearning and instinct, by aborting her child, that is a pain and a void that you can’t imagine. if you do your homework on this (try going to the post-abortion healing link on this site for starters) you will have to admit that the pain of abortion is at LEAST as bad, and i would say worse, than rape. because rape is not the woman’s fault - abortion IS her choice and to live with having been the cause of your own child’s death is heartbreaking, to say the least.
moving on to other silliness in your post, you claim that had you had a say in your mother’s pregnancy, you would’ve done this or that. well, isn’t that about as ridiculous a premise as there could be? you couldn’t make any decisions as an unborn child, so it’s a mute point at best. besides, many great people were the products of rape, such as ethel waters, whose mother was raped at 13 by a white man, but who went on to be one of the greatest gospel singers ever. i personally know a woman who was raped, became pregnant, and gave the child up for adoption. she is happy, well-adjusted, and at peace with herself because she gave the child (who should not be punished for the sin of its father) life.
the arguments you attempt to employ are rehashed and very tiresome, and quite frankly, pathetic. the idea that a child is better off aborted than adopted is just obscene. your reasoning goes something like this:
“well, here i am, pregnant by a rapist. i could carry the child and give it up for adoption, because thousands of couples are cleared and waiting to adopt. that way the child could have a nice home, and be loved by two parents. but you know, there’s a chance that the adoptive parents might be abusive people. and what if my child was subject to being tied to a bedpost and starved and beaten or something like that? oh my, i just couldn’t fathom that….
well, i think i’ll just have the baby torn limb from limb and flushed down a sewer. that way, i can sleep nights, knowing that my baby would never be subject to the possibility of being abused someday.”
now that is about the most ridiculous reasoning any person could come up with, and here you are, trying to make the case that it’s ‘reasonable’, even ‘logical’.
i think your reasoning is far closer to being demented than anything else.
October 24th, 2004 at 6:23 pm
It’s things like this that make me incredibly thankful to be Canadian. Of course there are pro-life groups, protests, the whole deal; but as far as I know, there are no groups like this harassing people for exercising their legal right. Or for knowing someone, or working with someone, or providing services to someone who (gasp) helps with or has had an abortion.
Although I am strongly pro-choice, I do acknowledge and support your right to voice your opinion and protest against things you think are wrong. But really, your tactics are taking things way, way too far. Harassment, pushing religion on people, and promoting hatred are things I cannot condone. Not that I expect my words to make a difference in your mindset, but please, try to see it from the other perspective.
-Jacqueline, age 13
October 25th, 2004 at 2:42 pm
jacqeline
you are offended because some names have been published, some signs have been held up, and some pictures have been shown.
meanwhile, you are not offended when innocent human lives, babies not much older than you are, are torn limb from limb and flushed down sewers.
gee, jacqeline, it would seem that you have no idea what you are talking about, and are simply spouting off with empty rhetoric you’ve heard somewhere.
how about if you actually do some research before you become “strongly” anything?
start by going to some of these sites:
http://www.justthefacts.org
http://www.abortionbreastcancer.com
http://www.thinkaboutitonline.com
http://www.poorchoice.org
http://www.feministsforlife.org
http://www.lifeissues.org
and when you have done some research (obviously you’ve yet to do that or you wouldn’t have opened your mouth and inserted your foot) then i will be open to hearing what you have learned. but as it stands, your opinion is not fact-based or even tied to any relevant truth.
whether you are 13 or 93, opinions which are not based on facts are simply so much hot air.
October 26th, 2004 at 11:43 am
Areaph, et al,
My comment, “…as traumatic, vicious, demeaning and cruel as rape is, it is murder that is the ULTIMATE imposition of one person’s will upon another, against that other’s will, and to his/her hurt.” was based upon a logical comparison between the numbers of rape victims who survive that violation with the numbers of murder victims who survive to go on to lead more or less productive, fulfilling lives. (I, probably like most adults, personally know several individuals in the former category; none in the latter)
Again, as traumatic as rape is, it is still a gross miscarriage, perversion & obstruction of justice to use it as an excuse to brutally murder an innocent child, and subject to further violation, and worse trauma & endangerment, that child’s mother.
As I have also already indicated, strong negative emotion connected with the thought of the crime of rape is understandable; but it has been proven that strong negative emotion hinders reasonable thinking and one place this principle is blatantly obvious is in the exploitation of those emotions in regards to abortion law.
s. jolnes
November 5th, 2004 at 11:51 pm
I am sorry that someone who believes in god feels it is their right to harrass other people. Please do what is right and leave these poor people alone. You have no right to harass someone, no matter what you believe. When I read the article in Rolling Stone I felt like I was reading about the Al-Queda. They believe that what they are doing is what god wants, do you?
Once again, please leave these poor people alone.
November 11th, 2004 at 12:03 am
mike
first of all, mike….do you get your news from leftist rags like the rolling stone? and do you automatically assume you’ve just read the truth when you do? apparently so…. i’d urge you to utilize a bit of discernment.
secondly, the “poor people” you refer to tear babies limb from limb every day, and toss their broken bodies into an industrial size incinerator when they are finished. these “poor people” exploit and lie to women every day, making money off the deaths of their children. what ORW has done is to simply expose that.
in a strange juxtaposition of moral virtue, you are offended by ORW but not by the people who slaughter children every day and make large sums of money doing so.
before you assume the moral high ground, try doing some research on what abortion is and what it does to women and children.
http://www.poorchoice.org
http://www.abortionbreastcancer.com
December 4th, 2004 at 2:21 pm
areaph
the problem with your overly simplistic reasoning is as follows:
“98% of abortions have nothing to do with rape, incest, life of the mother, or fetal abnormality.
98% of abortions are for purely selfish reasons, performed on perfectly healthy mothers carrying perfectly healthy babies.
there is an old saying, as true today as ever.
“hard cases make bad law”. and this is what legal abortion is. the 2% of abortions that are commonly referred to as ‘exceptions’ are now the rule, and 100% of abortions are allowed because of the 2% of exceptional situations. and that is ridiculous.”
Does that then invalidate the 2%’s claim to abortion, just because most people use it irresponsibly? If that’s so, then making abortion illegal will harm those unfortunate people the most.
“it is so tiresome for people like you to trot out these rare exceptions and try to make abortion seem ‘right’ or ‘good’.”
I never said that abortion was good. It’s a necessary evil, at best. But I shudder at the thought of having to carry someone’s offspring against my will.
“moving on, most rapes do not result in pregnancy because of the trauma involved. in addition, you claim that most women prefer death to being raped. interesting how you can speak for ‘most women’.”
Please don’t twist my words. What I said was that *many*, not *most* women, would rather die. Including myself. And having to carry a child would be even worse.
*especially since post-abortion syndrome is rampant in america, and it plagues thousands upon thousands of women (and even men) and often leads to thoughts of suicide, and miscellaneous tendencies toward self-destructive behavior. a woman is designed to be a life-giver, not a life-taker, and whenever she betrays that natural yearning and instinct, by aborting her child, that is a pain and a void that you can’t imagine.*
Ah, back to an old sexist argument. Women are brood hens to slip duck eggs under, yes?
You derided me falsely for speaking for “most women,” and yet you claim to speak for ALL women in saying that ALL women have a natural desire to be mothers and to give life. They do not. And until you have walked a mile in the shoes of every single woman who has ever lived, you have no right to say so. I have no instinct to be a mother. My protective instincts are at least as powerful as my maternal ones. There is no “yearning.” I have “betrayed” nothing about myself. This is who I am.
“if you do your homework on this (try going to the post-abortion healing link on this site for starters) you will have to admit that the pain of abortion is at LEAST as bad, and i would say worse, than rape. because rape is not the woman’s fault - abortion IS her choice and to live with having been the cause of your own child’s