Truth Trucks, Preachers Give Tiller’s Church Another Opportunity To Repent
Wichita KS — Operation Rescue confronted members of Reformation Lutheran Church in Wichita on Sunday, March 26, 2006, with the grisly truth about what their most famous member, abortionist George R. Tiller, does for a living.
Two Truth Trucks parked outside the church while Operation Rescue missionaries and two visiting street preachers called on church members to repent from the sin of embracing child-killing, reminding them that according to Isaiah 1, God will not hear their prayers because they have blood on their hands.
The rescuers were flipped off, shouted at, and nearly run over by angry motorists in speeding vehicles entering the parking lot.
Tiller runs the largest late-term abortion mill in the world, outside Communist China. He and his wife, Jeanne, who co-owns the abortion mill with her husband, regularly partake of Holy Communion at Reformation Lutheran, where they took membership after being excommunicated from Holy Cross Lutheran Church several years ago.
Tiller is a troubled abortionist who is currently under investigation by Attorney General Phill Kline for suspected illegal late-term abortions and non-reporting of child rape. A grassroots effort is also underway to convene a Grand Jury to investigate Tiller in the abortion death of a 19-year old Downs Syndrome girl last year as well as a half dozen other botched abortions documented by Operation Rescue.
March 27th, 2006 at 9:49 pm
Baby killers should be ostracized from society. They should have no rest. There should be no sanctuary for them. They should have no place to lay their heads.
Those who harbor them should be tried as accomplices of the killing. Both should be executed by a just society. I pray that such a society is found in this nation, someday. SOON.
March 28th, 2006 at 8:44 am
I’m sorry, Robert, I disagree in some respects, particularly when you got to the part about “they should be executed.”
Life is life. Period. ORW is trying to save these people, which is laudable. The goal isn’t just saving babies. It’s saving souls. The way I see it, people like Tiller probably won’t repent — but you know what? They also won’t be able to say on judgment day, “I never heard the gospel.” If they hear it and reject it, that’s their problem.
How to deal with pro-aborts is a tough question. But killing them is just as bad as what they do. I generally approve of a lot of ORW’s tactics. I personally think that a smile wins over a lot more hearts than threats of being put on trial, ostracized, and executed. I particularly like St. Francis of Assisi’s advice: “Preach the Gospel. Occasionally, use words.”
March 28th, 2006 at 10:58 am
That joke of a church Tiller hides behind has just as much blood on their hands as he does.
If Tiller chooses to remain a serial murderer until his dying day, then that will be on him at the time of his judgement and no amount of blood money that he donated Reformation will make one bit of difference to God. Executing him & his ilk would make us as bad as them.
I personally cannot bring myself to pray for him. I have a very hard time swallowing the fact that Tiller could spend the better part of his life murdering and then repent and have it taken away at the last second. I don’t believe that there is any redemption for a baby murderer, period.
March 28th, 2006 at 7:56 pm
Frank,
God mentions at least 15 reasons that sinners should executed.
I do not disagree with any.
March 28th, 2006 at 9:11 pm
I prefer the teachings of the Bible over man any day- but
Here is another one of those big on teachings of St Francis:
Apostate Priest ‘Looks After’ S.F. Male Sex Workers
SAN FRANCISCO — The Rev. River Sims’ rent-controlled efficiency apartment is lined with handmade crucifixes and photos of young male hustlers who sold sex for cash. Many are now dead. There’s Zach, who died of a drug overdose at 19. Larry died of AIDS at 27. They are just two of the young men Sims has known during his years as an itinerant street priest who walks San Francisco’s seedier streets, distributing clean needles, condoms and Gospel [sic] tidbits to male prostitutes. “St. Francis said, ‘Preach as much as you can, but use as few words as possible,’” says Sims. Sims, 45, a priest in the independent Apostolic Catholic Church, is part of a resurgence in urban missionaries who feel more at home on the streets than in parishes, says the Rev. Mario DiCicco, president of the Franciscan School of Theology in Berkeley.
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/politics/14196109.htm
March 29th, 2006 at 8:10 am
Robert,
You seem to be doing an awful lot of condemning people throughout your various threads. If you’re relying on the Bible, (as to the “15 reasons we should execute people?”), I seem to remember Paul to the Romans, Chapter 12, Verse 19: “Vengence is mine, I will repay.” I get really, really scared when people start giving the “God-given” “numbered reasons” (not 14, not 16, but exactly 15) why we should start executing people, and/or usurping God’s rights and assuming them ourselves. Perhaps some day someone will decide to execute me…
If you had to sum up Christianity in 1 word, I submit that word is “LOVE.” Nowhere in your posts about executing people, ostracizing them, deciding who are “apostates,” etc., do I see the slightest hint of any “love” for anyone. Our goal as humans (particularly as Christians) should be: Love everyone. Love your enemies. Love George Tiller. Love abortionists. Love terrorists. Note I DON’T say “let them do whatever they want.” We have duties to educate, to defend innocent, etc., but we also have a duty to LOVE. Period. Jesus told people to do it, regardless of what people do in return. So “Love” ought to work for you & me. I submit that LOVING and KILLING are mutually exclusive. Killing in the name of God (which you seem to advocate) is just plain terrifying.
March 29th, 2006 at 8:24 am
Hi Tina,
“I personally cannot bring myself to pray for him.”
–Yeah, I can see that. Personally, I find it easy to pray for people like Tiller: “God, change his heart,” is all it takes IMHO.
“I have a very hard time swallowing the fact that Tiller could spend the better part of his life murdering and then repent and have it taken away at the last second.”
–I can see that too. However, as to last-second repentance, that’s up to God. Only God knows what’s in one’s heart. It’s like the parable about the master and the servants in the field: Whether the workers start work at sunrise, midday, or 4pm, God can give tehm all the same pay. I figure it’s more important to get ourselves to Heaven than to be irate about others getting there late in life.
I’m not trying to preach, and I often feel as you do. But it’s up to God.
March 29th, 2006 at 12:11 pm
Frank,
You are confused. Man can not condemn anyone. God condemns the unrepentant baby killer and the Bible says that no murderer will see the kingdom of God.
One can however righteously judge baby killers actions. This is what I am doing. Christians should love George Tiller and other baby killers enough to warn them- not coddle them. Warn them that what they do is a capital crime according to God’s righteous laws.
You are further confused as to any implication of vengeance. Justice not vengeance is being spoken of. Pay attention.
The Bible says that the righteous should seek JUSTICE. The most loving thing that we can do for people is to seek the lawful execution of baby killers- lest some other fool falls into the same sin of baby killing.
Christ, Himself said that it is BETTER that those who offend the least of these should have a millstone hung around their necks and be cast into the depths of the sea. BETTER. Not just legitimate, not just justifiable. BETTER.
Now while you may prefer to smile at the offense of baby killing- it seems that Christ preferred a millstone to lethal injection- I have no such preference. Either would be fine with me in obtaining justice.
I’ll smile at these baby killers as they sink into that dark sea- not before. I can not show approval at their killing by smiling at them like you.
You just keep smiling at the baby killers if you wish while I seek justice. ok?
March 29th, 2006 at 12:17 pm
BTW Frank,
I said ‘at least 15′ not as you claimed ‘exactly 15′ There may be more- It is disingenous of you at best to make such a false claim about my statements.
There are 14 listed on this site:
http://logosresourcepages.org/OurTimes/capital.htm
and 36 suggested on this one
http://www.geocities.com/a_christian_conservative/index.html
I use the lesser number to understate my case for capital punishment.
Jesus affirmed the death penalty in Matthew 15: 3-4 and Mark 10: 9-10
Other Scriptures which pertain to the death penalty are:
Num. 35: 16 & 19 & 30; Lev. 24: 17 -21; Acts 25:11; Luke 19: 27; Heb. 10: 28; Ezekiel 13:19 Deut. 17: 5; 19: 11-15; 13:5-9;
Ex. 21: 12-16; Ex. 23:8 RAPE: Deut. 22: 25 - 29
Hope that helps.
March 29th, 2006 at 1:11 pm
Frank,
And I do know that it’s up to God. I think that my feelings about my late term abortion that was done by his hands affect my view of him.
March 29th, 2006 at 1:59 pm
Robert,
The more you write, the more people you seem to condemn. If I read your posts, here’s what I see you advocating in the name of a religion based on love:
1. Execution.
2. Ostracizing others.
3. Giving people no peace, and “no where to lay their heads.”
4. Using millstones to kill people.
5. Killing people because we love them (like abortionists). [Please, Robert, at least recant this one].
6. One who disagrees? They are “confused” and need to “pay attention,” I guess to you and no one else.
I reiterate there is not an ounce of love, tenderness, or compassion, anywhere on your posts. Too bad you’re missing the entire gist of Christianity, which, as I said, was “love others.” A child can get it, without referencing weird pro-death-penalty webblogs.
As to them, and their “reasons for executing others,” I checked them out — they include death for behavior like “working on the Sabbath.” Are you serious? Wait, please don’t answer.
I’m sorry you have this mad desire to “love by killing,” as that’s been used to justify an awful lot of nastiness over the years. If you and I disagree over what justice is, fine, but do us all 2 favors please: 1) don’t kill anyone; and 2) consider whether by your own acts you may harm Christians, and othes’ view of our great religion, everywhere. Your eagerness to kill others is antithetical to what ORW is all about.
March 29th, 2006 at 3:13 pm
Re: last second repentance; it has been wisely observed that while true repentance is never too late, late repentance is seldom true; there is a process called hardening of the heart and in its last stages, the individual is totally hardened to God. Only God knows where Tiller is on that continuum; let us hope & pray that if he has not passed the point of no return, that he (and his allies) will repent quickly; and that if he has, God will, in mercy to him, leave him on earth as long as possible as to spare him as many of the pangs of hell as He can; and, in mercy to his myriad victims, get him out of his grisly “business” as quickly as possible.
March 29th, 2006 at 9:23 pm
Again Frank,
You are unable to judge righteously anything that I have written.
You have lied and born a false witness of God’s word as “wierd”, and as to any eagerness, lack of love for enemies, implication that I am going to kill anyone, or do not stand for what Rescue stands for, etc.
I do not disagree with anything that God placed in scripture as a reason for execution. Neither does rescue. You did not address a single scripture except to call God’s word a joke. You question it as if God was not serious. I do not mock God.
I suggest that you repent and refrain from further mocking of God’s Word as well.
BTW Were you once the recepient of The Neville Chamberlain Award?
Jeremiah 48:10
March 30th, 2006 at 6:23 am
Frank loves too much. Frank’s love is so great, he even loves baby-killers! Frank loves babies too. He loves them to pieces, he loves them to death.
Frank and his ilk, are the sole reason abortion is unabated these 33 years with no end in sight.
dan
March 30th, 2006 at 8:58 am
Robert,
–Like I keep writing, the more you write the more you fill the internet with a lot of hate. Now you’re just using personal attacks.
I reiterate that if you really believe those who work on the sabbath should be executed, you’ve got more problems than I thought,and no amount of compassion from real Christians is going to help you.
March 30th, 2006 at 9:08 am
Dan,
“Frank and his ilk are why abortion is legal?”
–You are way, WAY out of line. So what “ilk”are you refering to? People who don’t bomb abortion clinics and parade around hating/judging others? I’m pro-life, always have been, and actively supported the pro-life cause for years with my time, my money, and my lungpower. What more would you like? That I execute some people who you & Robert thinks are apostates?
–As to “loving too much,” I seem to recall Jesus said, “love you enemies.” And “love others as yourself.” I’d say LOVE is a better course of action than HATE. The rabid hate coming out of a select few posters on this site will absoluitely turn off just about any levelheaded reader of this site. And the concept of “let’s kill because we love,” is, once again, pretty scary.
–Interesting how some “prolifers” even hate one of their own when I don’t see eye to eye on the details. You guys are poster children for why Christians get a bad rap.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:01 am
Frank,
Go ahead and pick and choose which verses you would like your golden calf god to have you accept.
Why you would wish to discount one of His TOP TEN is beyond me……
And then you continue to admit that you really do not beleive in scripture- not even in the ‘love’ you aledgely tout- your admission that even you do not believe that loving compassion from “real” Christians is enough is quite truthful for one with such confusion over complete truth.
It just goes to document what I said about you- those who discount the FULL character of God are unable to judge righteously.
As for me:
God says it. I believe it.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:25 am
You love your enemies to the hurt of your friends.
You are more loving than Jesus, you are nicer than God who demands the execution of Murders (Gen 9:5-6; Matthew 15:1-5: Luke 19:27)
You are incapable of judging because you are a hypocrite (Matthew 7:1-5; Romans 2:1-2). You offer a $25,000 reward for the capture and conviction of anyone who acts righteously in defending the babies. You are Frank Pavone are you not?
dan
March 30th, 2006 at 12:58 pm
Dan,
I am most assuredly NOT “Frank Pavone.” There are other Franks in the prolife cause other than he.
But you are STILL most assuredly way out of line, and going further afield each post.
Now please do a favor and stop using the anonymous nature of the internet to spew more invective at a fellow prolifer. In other words, in terms even you can understand, stop the rudeness, okay?
March 30th, 2006 at 1:16 pm
Robert,
I have to sigh as I see more and more insults coming my way in the name of Jesus. Now I worship a golden calf too. In fact, you know nothing about me or what I believe.
Your readers know about you, though. You’d like to execute every child who has ever mouthed off to one’s parents — uh…because the Bible says so. Since no (sane) parent would ever kill their own child for this, I guess you’re not a parent. You’d also like to execute doctors who work in hospital ERs around the nation, saving sick & injured children — after all, those doctors work on the Sabbath and deserve execution.
In other words, you’d like to execute a lot of people in the name of Jesus.
Please grow up, join the 13th century if not the 2st, and try to be a bit more patient and a bit more compassionate. That’s what the world needs, not more hate and more people willing to execute the whole world.
I have no more to say, since it’s purely a waste of priceless time arguing with you.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:13 pm
Golly Frank, I’m sorry that I confused you with that hypocrite priest.
Yes Frank, like the Jesus in the Bible (Matt. 15: 1-5), not your cheeses, I would like to return to the good old days when children spoke respectfully to their parents (The 13th century will do). Executing some of the little rascals will have quite an educational effect on the others (Proverbs 19:25). You would only have to hang about a half a dozen of them for the others to catch on.
He who loves his child more than Christ loves neither his child nor Christ (Luke 14:26; Proverbs 13:24).
dan
March 30th, 2006 at 2:59 pm
Robert,
May I quote the bible for you ? ” THOU SHALT NOT KILL ”
seems pretty clear to me.
March 30th, 2006 at 6:10 pm
It would be great if you would actually understand that pasage too Tina.
The word used in Ex is ratsach and it means MURDER. A legal execution (what I have called for) is NOT murder Tina.
if it were Christ would not have advocated for them, nor would God have instituted them in the first place.
It’s a shame when folks do not take the time to STUDY the Word of God so that it could actually be that light to their path.
Ratsach appears 47 times in the OT. It is never used in the context of legitimate war, or in the case of self-defense (Exod. 22:2), accidental killing (Deut. 19:5), or in the execution of a person who has forfeited his life by “shedding man’s blood” (Gen. 9:6). It is also not used in the text describing how Moses slayed the Egyptian taskmaster (Exod. 2:12). All of these Scriptures use a different word not found in the Sixth Commandment.
The Bible says to seek justice. The Bible says that the ONLY way that a land can be cleansed of the blood guilt is for the blood of the murderer (in this case the baby murderer, Tiller and other abortionists) to be shed.
We must seek to have the laws of this land make baby killing a capital offense so that our land can be clensed of the blood guilt upon it. Seek Justice, Tina.
I hope this helps you in your understanding of scripture that you quote like an ignoramus and in your understanding of justice as well as in your bearing of false witness- for which I am compelled to forgive you for if you repent and seek my forgivenenss.
March 30th, 2006 at 6:20 pm
Frank,
So far you have been pretty selective over which scripture you believe and which you do not accept.
You make the same accusations that the pharasees did when Jesus healed on the Sabbath.
Why do you wish to do what the Pharasees do?
I challange you Frank, Know your Bible Frank. Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not be ashamed. If you do this. You will understand that scripture teaches what I have said. You will no longer need to say what Pharasees said of Christ in your false witness against the brethren- your eyes wil be opened to the full Gospel.
Of course, you do not even know enough to recognise that you should be ashamed for these things, do you?
If you repent, I am compelled to forgive you as Christ has forgiven me. King Jesus the Sever does not forgive the unrepentant, Frank. Neither do I. It is just not just.
March 31st, 2006 at 8:00 am
Tina,
Don’t waste any more time with Robert. The more anyone challenges him, the more he condemns them. You are not an Ignoramus and he by no means speaks for Christians.
BTW, I did not know of your personal experiences with Tiller. Yes, that would color your opinion of him. I assumed you knew him only in the abstract.
March 31st, 2006 at 8:44 am
Robert, Robert, Robert.
So when all your insults and mockery are done, your arguments boil down to “you don’t know the Bible and are selective.”
–Actually, Robert, I know it better than you, and it is you who are being selective. Besides, you don’t need to know each line of the Bible anyway, since the basic themes can be followed by a child.
–Before you make more references to obscure Old Testament passages that maybe 0.00001% of Christians, and esentially ZERO “main-line Christian faiths” adhere to (like, for example, kill those working on the Sabbath), try reading the Gospel of John. The whole Gospel. That’s basically all you need to know.
–The Bible (particularly the Old Testament) can be used to justify any behavior you want. But the central themes of the New Testament are easy to see if you think about them: Love. Forgiveness. The Power of God and His supremacy over man. Jesus being the son of God, and dying for all of us. The Trinity of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. You miss all of that in your namecalling and your insults, and your minutae.
–I, and others, have pointed out a lot of verses you ignore, or “reinterpret,: or say, “uhh..it actually means something different and you’re worshipping a golden calf, etc.” How about the 10 Commandments. Or “Vengeance is mine,” Romans 12:19. How about John 7:53-8:11?, i.e., Jesus refuses to condemn the adulterous woman. He doesn’t kill her. He forgives her. Or how about Jesus seeking out the sinners and breaking bread with them, rather than “executing them.” Or the beatitudes — all of them. Jesus doesn’t say “blessed are the executioners” –he singles out the meek, the peacemakers, and the merciful (all of which are qualities lacking in your posts) If I’m selective, so are you, and so are just about all Christians you condemn.
–Of couse, nowhere do I namecall, judge the souls of others, or insult. That’s about all you’ve got, and you have absolutely no right to do any of those things. I’m sorry you’re so hotheaded about this; you must be, if all the misspellings, namecalling, etc., in your posts are any indication.
–Jesus said to love others. He didn’t say, “waste time trying to reason with hotheads.” So enough with you already. There are more important things in life than this continued argument with you, as you’ve had no interest in my threads other than to condemn me. Your condemning rants are a waste of time for all those who read them, nothing more.
Bye,
Frank
March 31st, 2006 at 11:06 am
and Jesus leads an army to kill. this is found in revalations. and the Lord declares he will spit out the lukewarm, this also is found in revalations, as well as the Scripture stating cowards are among the people deserving of Hell. if one was to compare americans to folks in nazi german times, many peaceful prolifers would make excellent concentration camp guards. these peacers grant lipservice to the person being victimized by abortion, which is the baby, but love their killers. all it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing and i might add to become tv personalities.
March 31st, 2006 at 1:34 pm
Frank,
If you want to read about my abortion at Tiller’s, click on “Whistleblowers confirm the need for a Grand Jury investigation”. It was the absolute worst thing I have ever gone through. I was 27 weeks pregnant, I had been raped, and I thought that abortion was my only way out. I was so, so wrong.
Robert,
Hell will freeze over before I ask your forgiveness for anything just so we’re clear.
March 31st, 2006 at 5:13 pm
tobra,
Your position is insulting. Now I’m like a concentration camp guard too.
Neither you nor anyone else can say who is going to hell & don’t dare try. Before you pack me & “peacers” off to hell, try removing the plank from your own eye before you look for the speck in mine. Like I said, “peacers” were called “blessed” in the beatitudes by Jesus himself, but I guess you missed that, having jumped ahead to Revelation.
March 31st, 2006 at 7:08 pm
Frank Frank Frank-
You have not let me down. It is understood that you would again fail miserably to address the accurate doctrine of justice shown by myself and others through scripture.
You claim that the OT is obscure and inSINuate that it should not be followed because a majority rebell like you from it’s doctrine.
So let’s take a look at a NT verse that I’m sure you love so well- to see if we should utilize the OT for our doctrine or not, shall we?
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” (II Tim. 3:16,17)
Exactly WHAT scripture is God directing Timothy to speak of if not to include the OT scriptures that I have addressed and you have rebellled from- sense there was no NT at the time of Timothy’s writings?
Tina,
Anticipation was not extended that there was a spec of honor in one who claims such a past with Tiller as you do so as to cause you to repent of breaking the 9th Commandment -
March 31st, 2006 at 8:33 pm
Hey Frank,
I can tell you who is going to hell:
“9 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be deceived: no sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, or swindlers will inherit God’s kingdom.”
1 Cor 6;9-10
It’s a no brainer Frank
dan
April 1st, 2006 at 1:01 am
There is a communion of men with God by which, having entered the heavenly sanctuary, appeal to him in person concerning his promises in order to experience, where necessity so demands, that what they believed was not vain, although he had promised it in word alone.
- John Calvin
Frank said to Tina: “I did not know of your personal experiences with Tiller. Yes, that would color your opinion of him. I assumed you knew him only in the abstract.”
So now it’ s SITUATIONAL prayer ethics, eh? The right or wrong nature of prayer for Tiller’s repentance is now CONDITIONAL now? According to you- her claims change everything about whether prayer is good or bad.
Prayer for Tiller is not conditional or situational. We SHOULD pray for our enemies. I pray the prayer of David for baby killers. Why? Because we testify before God of Tiller’s wicked murders so that God will seek justice and avenge the deaths of these preborn!
Jesus sheds some helpful light on this truth when He says, “Where two or three have gathered in My name, there I am in their midst” (Matt. 18:20).
The reference to “two or three” is a formula used for legal testimony in the Old Testament: “On the evidence of two or three witnesses, he who is to die shall be put to death; he shall not be put to death on the evidence [literally "mouth"] of one witness” (Deut. 17:6).
That’s why a false testimony (like the one you give of me) was so aggregeous to God that He placed it in His TOP TEN, Frank.
In the Bible, God would would have the punishment for a false testimony be that which the victim is to have recieved at the hands of the bearing of false witness to be carried out on the false witness.
That’s why your false testimony of me is so important against YOU. Yet you do not even recognize the log in your eye.
The old “love the sinner- hate the sin” heritical teaching. You wish to love the sinner while claiming to hate his sin. As though such is Biblical. God hates the sinner as well as his sin (Psalms 11:5).
There are ABSOLUTES in this world Frank.
Prayer for Tiller is one of those. Now mind me, we DO get to choose our prayers. I choose King David’s prayer as my prayer for baby killers.
http://www.carm.org/kjv/Psalms/Psalm_109.htm
It is a good one to use for all bearers of false witness as well.
April 1st, 2006 at 1:10 am
You mention the ten commandments and poo poo my correcting the misinterpretation of the word murder to say “kill”. Then go on to claim that *I* am the one twisting things.
Let’s take a look at Exodus 20:13-17. Is this a practical explanation about what Jesus meant about loving our neighbor? If I asked you “Would you want other people to refrain from doing these things to you?” you would say, “Yes!” Yet like a hypocrite- you bear false witness against me and most importantly God’s Word
You continue down the path of the Pharasee’s shown in Matthew 22:34-36. speaking of which is the greater covenant law.
I have to tell you, Frank.
There are ONLY two classifications of people: Covenant-keepers and Covenant-breakers.
These are the only two, each having opposite inheritances. The Covenant-breakers may appear to get their’s on the “front end” of life- like Tiller. But in the end, they will lose everything forever. The Covenant-keepers get to be like Job: greatly tested but richly blessed in this life AND the one to come because of their great faith and obedience.
Great faith and obedience is important in being a Covenant / Law keeper. Moses is listed as a man of great faith in Hebrews. Moses is mentioned by Stephen the Martyr at his own death for his great faith and example. Moses defended the Jew by faithfully killing the Egyptian task master.
You claim to love God but can not love the least of these enough to seek God’s justice for them. Jesus said the second is like unto the first- Love your neighbor as yourself.
Who is your neighbor Frank?
Certainly you do not think it me, since you bear a false witness against me.
Surely it is not the preborn since you will not seek justice for them.
Since you hate God and will not obey his 9th comandment- you hate me- testifying falsely against me and you can not even love the prebon enough to seek justice for these precious victims - is there any evidence you really love anyone but yourself?
April 1st, 2006 at 9:38 pm
Advocating violence in this public forum does not advance the cause, Robert. Both pro-choice organizations and law enforcement authorities regularly monitor Operation Rescue’s web site . And there is, of course, nothing anonymous about the Internet.
April 2nd, 2006 at 8:38 pm
Bob,
Law Enforcement is well aware of my views. If it were illegal I would be arrested.
There is nothing illegal about what I advocate, Bob execution is sanctioned in these United States.
Execution is “the act or an instance of putting to death or being put to death as a lawful penalty.”
If it were illegal to advocate as I and others have; for the lethal execution of baby killers- ORWest would not allow such to be posted.
You need to get your mind out of the gutter and back into the Bible, and the character of God’s justice, you poor thing.
April 2nd, 2006 at 8:51 pm
I too believe babykilling abortionists should be legally executed.
April 3rd, 2006 at 9:23 pm
Robert, et al,
I have not been on the site for a few days, and I understand am coming into this late.
I say to you, Robert, that you are doing a great diservice to us and our cause.
If you want to be heard please find another site advocating your views. There are many pro-hate sites you could be posting on, as a pro-life one is definitely not the appropriate forum.
Thank you in advance for your understanding.
April 3rd, 2006 at 9:28 pm
Frank,
Thank you also for your patience. This forum is clearly no longer moderated as it should be and once was. Appropriate discussion should not include hate rants. There is enough of that in the world.
April 4th, 2006 at 12:51 am
Tina Says:
March 28th, 2006 at 10:58 am
I personally cannot bring myself to pray for him.
—————————————————————–
MILLTHORN asks, why should you try to bring yourself to pray for him? Here’s some relief from
1John 5:16,17 (16) “If you see a believer commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray to God, who will give that person life. This applies to those whose sins do not lead to death. But there is sin which leads to death, and I do not say that you should pray to God about that. (17) All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which does not lead to death.”
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MILLTHORN CONTINUES: If I read it correctly, a mass murderer is in sin that leads to death. This particular sinner is therefore beyond help from “our” prayers.
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TINA WROTE:
I have a very hard time swallowing the fact that Tiller could spend the better part of his life murdering and then repent and have it taken away at the last second. I don’t believe that there is any redemption for a baby murderer, period.
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THE MILLTHORN RESPONDS:
This sinner’s eternal future belongs to God and God, Alone. This sinner’s salvation or redemption CAN still be accomplished because ANYTHING and EVERYTHING is possible with God. Finally, it is not for us to say the person in sin that leads to death “can’t” nor “shouldn’t” be Redeemed. That Territory belongs to God whether we like it or not.
April 4th, 2006 at 9:46 am
Billy J,
There is nothing more loving than advocating justice.
April 4th, 2006 at 12:25 pm
The book of wisdom, Proverbs shares this insight inspired by God for our DOCTRINE correction, reproof and instruction in RIGHTEOUSNESS.
“He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.” Proverbs.28:9
The Bible Regards Abortion as Murder
What the Bible says are the responsibilities of civil authorities in upholding justice is a point being missed by some people in the pro-life movement in particular and by the public in general. The Bible commands the civil authorities to administer justice “upon him that doeth evil” (Rom.13:4).
If Christians do not report very clearly about what the Bible says is sin, then the people will never know how to repent. “For by the law is the knowledge of sin” (Rom.3:20).
The Bible has always regarded abortion - killing the child in the womb as murder, a crime punishable by the death penalty.
For further instruction:
http://covenantnews.com/cspa990830.htm
April 4th, 2006 at 3:25 pm
Robert,
Please take the hint and find another board elsewhere. You speak for neither mainstream Christians, nor for this site. Your views are not welcome here. Stop being stubborn and go.
Good-bye Robert
April 4th, 2006 at 4:01 pm
Robert Ferguson is right. I hold, believe in, and advocate the death penalty for any and all pre-meditated murders of the unborn, in which the murderer is legally of sound mind, the same as the laws of man prescribe death for the murder of living souls.
When a murderer is brought to justice and punished with death, which was committed, for example, during an act of arson, the reality of whether he/she repents in the eyes of any preacher on earth is not an issue under the law. Let them repent–and then stretch their neck. If the repentance was genuine, God Almighty will find a way. Therefore, I would say trust God and not man to find a way out of murder, whether the murder of a born or unborn person.
But don’t try to find a way out by trying to convince me that unborn babies are not fully human beings with the entire range of constitutional and legal rights as any born person, as this can’t be done. I am intractable.
Bob Lokey, firm and final
April 4th, 2006 at 4:27 pm
It might be more appropriate to take this discussion to the Forum, which is a better place for debate. Comments are welcome here, but debates such as this are better suited to our forum. You all are welcome to register and opine there at will!
http://www.operationrescue.org/forum/
Thank!
-OR
April 4th, 2006 at 4:36 pm
What is a “hate rant?” Is it somebody that advocates justice? If so, then more than ninety-nine percent of the human population in the world is guilty of it, as at least this percentage of the human population yearns for justice.
Is a hate rant something like the newspapers in America print every day, in which thousands of articles daily acclaim somebody has been busted for harming others, whether legal or illegal?
I think “hate rant” in the definition of some equates with this: “Somebody has said something that disagrees with me and my position.”
I am convinced that some people actually believe he/she is God Almighty and that nobody, but nobody, should have a right to disagree with his/her position. If somebody does disagree, then he/she shouts “You just hate me, therefore, you should be sanctioned by removing your right to disagree with me.”
However, disagreeing with the positions of others in the present society falls within a hallowed constitutional right of all United States citizens, a right that is listed prominently under the First Amendment right of free speech (a hallowed right that is under withering assault today.) Many people in America would do well to study the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights in order to discover just exactly what kind of rights they possess, in order to realize that their rights of free speech do not necessarily supersede the rights of others that simply disagree with them.
Learning about the broad range of their own constitutional rights would probably discourage said individuals from vociferously trying to censor the same rights of others simply because said others have apparently disagreed with them.
You know, when I first began to move in the world I realized that there are others that don’t agree with me. I could spend all my time trying to stamp them out and thus destroy my own right of free speech in the process, or spend my time doing practical and useful things that benefit me immensely. Guess which route I chose? –Lokey
April 4th, 2006 at 4:37 pm
Ok, OR. Gotcha. –Lokey
April 4th, 2006 at 4:38 pm
Thanks OR I accept your posting of my advocacy for justice (in your year of justice) as your support for these important Biblical views.
As our good brother Jim Rudd says:
“God does not make exceptions that tolerate injury to any pregnant mother, or any child in the womb. In fact CURSES “come upon” and “overtake” nations that refuse to administer justice (Deut. 28:15).
If God does not tolerate exceptions to the administration of justice concerning murder by abortion, then neither should His people.”
I appreciate you wishing for this important debate to continue in your forum.
Perhaps if Billy J and Bob are not so filled with hate as to exclude God’s law from their life- we can do just that- in the forum.
http://www.operationrescue.org/forum/
However, anticipation is not extended that they will be not resort to bearing a false witness further.
Next their false claims will have me involved in blowing up abortuaries in my home in So Cal with my pastor and bible study group. ;-)
Anyone up to the debate of advocating for abortion to be a capital crime based on scripture?
http://www.operationrescue.org/forum/
December 29th, 2006 at 7:25 pm
If these truth trucks bother anyone,so what?Get over it.This is abortion.This happens 4000 times a day in America.God have mercy on all of us.You murdering women must be punished.I hope you all feel the guilt.Shame on you.