Operation Rescue urges Calvary Chapel’s Pastor Smith to retract his advice and apologize to his listeners
UPDATE Feb. 17, 2011: We have word from our friends from Survivors of the Abortion Holocaust that a member of that group called the radio program and provided Pastor Smith with the phone number of a physician who handles complicated pregnancies such as Nicki’s without resorting to abortion. Under public pressure, co-host Don Stewart put out a appeal for Nicki to call the station for that number. We have been told that Nicki did in fact call and received the phone number of that physician from the program staff. We pray she gets the help and care she needs to honor both her life and the lives of her pre-born twins. We stand by our statement that Smith’s recommendation of abortion in this case was dead wrong.
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Commentary by Troy Newman and Cheryl Sullenger
Costa Mesa, CA — Pastor Chuck Smith, founder of Calvary Chapel, shocked listeners on Tuesday on his “Pastor’s Perspective” call-in radio program when he encouraged a tearful mother to abort conjoined twins.
The caller, who identified herself as “Nicki from Riverside”, indicated that her babies share a body but have two heads and that she was being pressured by her doctors to abort them due to their assessment that the babies would likely not survive the pregnancy or live beyond a day if carried to term. At no time did Nicki indicate how far advanced her pregnancy was or that her life was in danger from the pregnancy.
Choking back tears Nicki told Smith and his co-host Dan Stewart, “My heart does – never wants to have an abortion, but I don’t know what to do. I don’t know — I don’t know what direction to go to right now. I’m really praying hard and trying to believe that the Lord is going to do what He’s going to do with these two little ones, and I don’t know what to do.”
It is obvious to us, with our combined 45 years of experience working with abortion vulnerable women, that Nicki did not want an abortion but was seeking some spiritual affirmation and encouragement that would help her amidst the pressure from her secular doctors to take the lives of her innocent babies. She got none from Smith and Stewart, who told her that God would not condemn her if she chose abortion.
“It’s awfully hard to actually suggest abortion,” said Smith. “But, you know, I’m sure that, uh, in a case like this where the life expectancy is just, you know, is so bleak, and all, that I’m sure that the Lord would not condemn her if she went ahead and had an abortion at this early stage of the development of the fetus.”
Smith then went on to misuse the Biblical story found in John, Chapter 8, of the woman caught in the act of adultery and taken to Jesus for judgment. Jesus told the crowd who sought to condemn her, “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” After the crowd disbanded in shame, Jesus told the woman, “Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.”
The way Smith used this passage, he was implying that abortion is sin, but that if she went ahead and sinned in this case, God would not hold it against her. There is no basis in traditional Christian theology to support Smith’s misuse of this incident in Scripture. Jesus told the woman to “go, and sin no more,” not to continue her sin with the expectation that God would not hold her to account.
While we respect Chuck Smith’s long service to God and his work in reaching the lost for Christ, his advice to Nicki regrettably showed extremely poor pastoral judgment. His answer was dead wrong, and could lead others to sin and error, along with a life-time of grief and remorse.
The Bible never condones the shedding of innocent blood nor does it allow for the taking of life based on the unfortunate circumstance that someone is sick. Instead, the Bible is full of recommendations to pray and fast for the sick.
Smith and Stewart attempted to “clarify” their advice to Nicki the following day on the Pastor’s Perspective broadcast, but in doing so only made a bad situation worse.
“I am totally opposed to abortion,” stated Smith. “I believe it is a great sin. I do believe that the 50-plus million children that have been aborted in the United State since the Roe verses Wade is one of the greatest sins of America, and I think that we’re going to be judged for it.”
However, in the next breath, Smith betrays his emphatic pro-life confession.
“I do not believe in abortion as it is being practiced today. However, there can be extenuating circumstances,” Smith continued.
Smith and his co-host then go on to completely mischaracterize the conversation with Nicki the previous day.
We hate to use the word “lie” but there is no other term for what the two pastors said next.
“As the lady said yesterday, the doctors were saying that her life was in jeopardy and carrying the babies, er, uh, baby that is in her womb with two heads, that the baby would not be able to survive more than five minutes after the birth, and that her life was jeopardized by it and she has a little two-year old daughter and I would say in a situation like that with these extenuating circumstances, that God would be gracious and forgiving. But that isn’t endorsing abortion at all…I’m totally opposed to abortion for just any reason, but I believe in being reasonable.”
Smith is speaking out of both sides of his mouth. One cannot say that abortion is justifiable with one breath then say that he is not endorsing abortion with the other. This kind of double-talk only serves to create confusion amongst believers. The Bible is clear; innocent bloodshed is not reasonable, it is sin.
As far as his version of Nicki’s story, the audio recording proves that she never said her life was in jeopardy or that the babies could not survive more than five minutes after birth. She repeatedly referred to her babies in the plural sense.
Smith referred to them as a “fetus” on the first day and later as “a baby with two heads,” language that served to dehumanize the twins in much the same way as abortionists do to justify their actions.
“It wasn’t about a deformity there, it was about something being life-threatening,” said co-host Don Stewart who went on to say that Smith was trying to explain her options in a “lose-lose” situation.
It was grieving to hear Stewart in such an obvious and blatantly deceptive damage-control mode.
Perhaps Smith and Stewart have forgotten that God is the Giver of Life that He alone numbers our days. The two men completely discount any thought that these babies might be given to Nicki and her husband to bring glory to Himself.
Take the example of Abigail and Brittney Hansel, conjoined twins that have been the subject of a special on TLC. Abigail and Brittney share one body. A YouTube video clip shows them celebrating their 16th birthday, each getting a driver’s license, and discussing the possibility of one day being mothers.
The girls are shown on another video clip answering questions about their condition. “How did you get this way?” one of the girls read off a list. “God made us this way,” answered the other.
Yes, God made them that way, and he made Nicki’s twins the way they are. If God decides to take their lives before birth or decides to give them long, productive lives like the Hansel twins, that is up to Him. It is not up to us to stand in the place of God and dictate the time and matter of death of innocent human beings, created in His image. Scripture calls that murder.
The least Smith and Stewart could have done was refer Nicki to a peri-natal hospice, such as the one operated by Choices Medical Clinic in Wichita, Kansas. Programs like these counsel families facing terminal diagnoses for their pre-born babies. They help the families cope with the stressful days ahead, support families through the grieving process, facilitate healing all the while allowing the families to show their babies dignity and love during their short lives.
Smith and Stewart owe their listeners a true Biblical perspective. We understand that people make mistakes, but when a mistake is made, we expect men of integrity own up to it and to do what they can to make it right. These men owe Nicki and their listeners a retraction and an apology.
Given the devastating consequences that could follow Pastor Smith’s unbiblical response to Nicki’s situation, perhaps he is at a time in his long and illustrious career that he should consider refraining giving further extemporaneous advice on call-in shows like Pastor’s Perspective.
Learn more about Peri-Natal Hospice Programs.
Hat tip to Tim & Terry Palmquist
Thank you for posting about Abby and Brittany because that is exactly what came to mind when I heard about this. These girls are alive and teenagers and LIVING LIFE! If a baby dies at 5 minutes old that is the GOD’S decision not ours. None of us are guaranteed another minute on this planet. Is this “pastor” saying that if you live 80 years your life is more valuable in God’s eyes than a child who only lives 3 years? Even living 5 minutes after birth is precious in God’s eyes and has value. This pastor needs to get on his knees and repent of his great PRIDE. He has lost his humility and thus cannot be led by the Holy Spirit. Because if he was allowing himself to be led by the Holy Spirit he never would espouse such a bloodthirsty WICKED view straight from the pits of hell. Get on your knees Pastor Smith and proclaim your sin is ever before you before you mock the name of Christ with your WICKEDNESS.
Pastor Smith… who made the deaf and dumb? Is it not I saith the Lord? God made these conjoined twins. Not doctors, not YOU, not their mother. GOD. Think about that.
One more thing, because this story makes me so so so angry! My pastor preached one week about how we just have got to stop making excuses for our sin! This is the problem “Pastor” Chuck. You are making excuses for sin. ABORTION IS NEVER REASONABLE. It is NEVER JUSTIFIABLE. If you are going to espouse such wicked views stop calling yourself a pastor and dragging the name of Christ through the mud.
I too, heard her voice inflection reflect complications being on her as well…Pastor Chuck obviously heard complications affecting her also. Pastor Don afterwards couldn’t express more on getting Pastoral prayer and advice on her CONTINUING condition. I have a question for you. Would you advise carrying a baby out full term IF a doctor said a full term pregnancy would be COMPLICATED. Her life is valuable as well, also caring for a very young child…PS…do you know that the switchboard to the program screens questions that they reply to, as to have a primary understanding of the subject…I trust Pastor Chuck had more information than you may know of. I’m 100% against abortion, yet, I’d have a hard time MAKING a rape victim have a baby…I wouldn’t condone it, yet, I COULDN’T condemn her…Pray, Pray, Pray! Your brother in Christ Jesus, always, Ernie.
Earnie, are you actually trying to make excuses for this bad behavior? There is no reason to have an abortion. On the rare case that a woman’s life is in immenent danger, the ethical course is to deliver the baby & try to save them both. In the case of rape, it is not acceptable to take someone’s life because of the sins of the father. Life is a gift from God. To destroy that life is a grievous sin against the God in whose image we are all made. The Enemy comes to steal, kill & destroy, but Jesus came to give LIFE. To say you are 100% against abortion yet have a hard time with rape victims carrying their babies is double-minded, my friend. You are not the Giver of life, so don’t be so quick to think you can decide who deserves it – and who doesn’t.
I believe that the authors of this article are way out of line. Not only have they engaged in personal attacks, they did not give Chuck Smith the courtesy of discussing the matter privately with them.
The truth is that the authors of this article went well beyond what was needed to make their point. They resorted to the slimiest tactics possible.
And btw- let’s check your integrity. I’ve made a PDF of this post on your webpage just to see if you have the integrity to leave it up.
Steven Youell
Women are under enough cruel pressure from doctors to abort; they need help and compassion and support from pastors, not just another voice urging them to trust in man, not in God.
Resources for moms facing a bad prenatal diagnosis:
Be Not Afraid
Carry to Term with a Negative Prenatal Diagnosis
If you are a friend of a mom: How to Support a Friend with a Poor Prenatal Diagnosis
Encouraging an abortion is NOT help! It’s telling her that she is not able to mother her child. Too cruel! Remind her that she is still a mom and her baby still needs her love, and that you will be there for her.
Abortion is easier for everybody else because you can pretend the tragedy never happened and put it out of your mind. But for the mom, it never goes away. Stand by her to give her the best possible outcome of a bad situation.
Steven,
It is you who are out of line, friend. We and several other pro-leaders attempted to contact and dialogue with Pastor Smith, but were all refused. We are reporting the fact that he advocated for abortion for one of his radio callers. That is an indisputable fact, not an attack. It was said in public not once but twice. It is also indisputable, and Pastor Chuck does not even attempt to refute this, that abortion is a sin against God. Smith’s bad public advice had to be challenged and corrected in public, because the advice was so damaging that it could cause someone to wrongfully shed innocent blood. I notice that you did not address the concern that advocation for abortion is wrong. Instead you have attacked the messenger. You made no attempt to contact us personally, but posted your attack to our public blog. Maybe it is time you practice what you preach.
I too was devestated and literally cried all day when I heard this news. I grew up in Calvary Chapels, Chuck Smith is a HERO in those churches. It has always been to settle any dispute or idea “Well, CHuck Smith says….” which makes me realize we have put him on way too high a pedestal. This woman called in because she trusted Chuck’s wisdom and experiance and his view of scripture. I see the great apostasy happening before my very eyes. If anyone has seen, like I have, what happens during an abortion WOULD NEVER say it is a choice. He NEVER even examined God’s sovereignty, and trusting in him, he went simply with a human perspective of trusting dr’s over the Creator of the Universe. SHAME ON HIM! SHAME SHAME! I always looked up to him, my mistake, I know many others do too. He will have to answer to God for his carelss remarks, and how many other women will rationalize this statement telling themselves that they too have special circumstances and that God won’t condemn them.
This is not suprising for a few reasons. When I lived in OC, I did sidewalk work at a local clinic and it was not uncommon to have a good number of the women and girls come through who were and proud to be members of CC, somehow claiming that this gave them some kind of free pass. Do you think CC has any kind of serious church discipline for those “members?”
Second, Smith has serious theological problems, not the least of which is a denial of the resurrection of the material body, (http://calvarychapel.pbworks.com/w/page/13146615/Chuck-Smith-Resurrection) not to mention gross nepotism, using the church to feather his own families’ nest and other highly questionable, if not objectionable financial matters, cataloged at the Pheonix Preacher, by Doug Gililand and others. If you take a look at his families holdings as a result of church money with very little oversight, I think you’d be suprised how much proeprty and wealth he as accumulated. Smith just isn’t the image be presents to his followers.
I knew nothing of this matter until a friend emailed me the link. On first glance I found myself sympathizing with pastor Smith but, after reading your rebuttal (especially the reference to Abby and Brittany Hansel) I am persuaded that your position is the better of the two – a compelling testimony and great example of why your work at OR is so important.
Wasn’t Laura Hope Smith going to Calvary Chapel in Cape Cod? Guess they didn’t preach enough against it there. The Shepherds should be coming out to their local abortuaries and rescue those being led to death. Too much in the comfort zone.
Also Chuck Smith put the doctors on a pedastal as gods. Chuck ever hear that doctors could be wrong in their predictions?
Steven, read a Bible. Please. Public sin = public chastisement. Private sin= private chastisement. “Pastor” Smith has led many astray with his very PUBLIC approval of abortion in some cases. Therefore, we publicly chastise him so that those led astray will reconsider.
Ernie, nice to know that you would kill children because of their father’s crimes. You’re a gem. I dare you to look a child conceived by rape in the eyes and tell her that she needs to die because of her father’s crimes. You probably couldn’t do that could you? I guess its easier for you to condemn children to death when you don’t have to look them in their little eyes.
Abortion does not prevent a woman from suffering complications. Premature c-section is always an option if continuing a pregnancy will really kill the woman. Killing the baby does not need to be an option. And a lot of times doctors are wrong. Read the stories on benotafraid. These moms were urged to abort and told how they or their babies would die and they didn’t. God is ultimately in control. He will never bless killing.
I am very disappointed in Chuck Smith. He was simply not being true to his former teaching and beliefs. It was wrong of him to suggest that abortion would be okay. Regarding the nepotism, I cannot be too surprised. Many years ago Chuck Smith Sr. suggested John Wimber and other Church leaders leave his church if they wanted to operate in Power Evangelism using gifts of the Spirit to demonstrate the power and love of God through miracles. Meanwhile Chuck Smith Jr. was using these methods of reaching the hearts and souls of people at his Calvary Fellowship Church. So it is not all that surprising that Smith family members would be favored financially via the giving of the church members. We are in the end times, we are going to see church leaders operating in their self-importance, ignoring what the Holy Spirit is saying and ultimately hurting those looking to them for Godly leading.
“Wasn’t Laura Hope Smith going to Calvary Chapel in Cape Cod? Guess they didn’t preach enough against it there.”
I don’t know about the church that Laura went to. But I know she had a friend who really laid on the peer pressure to get Laura to abort; thought Laura’s life would be over if she had the baby. Laura probably knew it wasn’t a good idea, but she caved into peer pressure; and then her life REALLY WAS over.
Now her so-called “friend” has to live with it for the rest of her life that she lead Laura into something that caused her death. I wonder if she regrets it and realizes how wrong she was to push Laura into an abortion, or does she just think they should have found another clinic. I hope she’s not hard enough to think it would have been worse if no abortion happened and Laura’d had the baby. I hope she’s not cold enough to see Laura’s death as the lesser of two evils, because at least it stopped the baby from being born.
Let this painful story be a lesson to girls, don’t pressure your friends into an abortion. It may be the last thing you do for (to) your friend. If a friend is pressuring you into an abortion, don’t do it. It could lead to your death. Avoiding childbirth isn’t worth giving up your life over. Find some other way than abortion. (A Crisis Pregnancy Center might be a good place to start.)
The back alley butcher hasn’t gone away with Roe v Wade. These days, the pro-abort groups fight standards and inspections for the abortion industry. This means that the back alley butchers are operating legally with few consequences to themselves and horrible consequences to women and girls. But hey, at least abortion access is increased. To some hard hearted idiots, that’s all that matters.
Ceecee,
Abortionist Rapin O.’s office was not a ‘clinic’. It was just him, his physician license, licensed by the Massachusetts Board of Medicine who did not care to check his lying background.
Wow. How can this man call himself a “man of GOD.” He clearly does not know the heart of GOD. GOD does not care if we are handicapped. We are precious to HIM no matter what.
It is truly sad and disturbing to hear that Pastor Smith said abortion would be OK or understandable in this situation. Even if the doctors are right and the babies will not live long after birth don’t we as a civilized society provide hospice care to those who are dying? Why is violence (i.e. an abortion)a way to deal with this situation? The mother and children deserve love and comfort during this difficult time. And she will likely handle this much better from an emotional standpoint if she is not complicit in the death of her children. From her words it sounds as though she was looking for support to hold to her belief that abortion is wrong. If she follows the advice given and has the abortion she will likely suffer emotional consequences. I pray that Paster Smith sees the error of his words and publically repents.
What makes this so sad is not only his advice but his lying the next day…
I am glad I did not seek counsel from this church I was formerly apart of when my wife got pregnant with conjoined twins (same situation the docs told us)
You can learn more about that here: http://goodtimesdelgadostyle.blogspot.com/search/label/conjoined%20twins%20Melody%20and%20Madison
I hope we can contact Nikki somehow and encourage her.
soli Deo gloria!
another reason why we should always look to Jesus and not to man. Men are not perfect, only Jesus is. Chuck Smith obviously used his secular knowledge instead of relying on God’s wisdom. Chuck Smith you need to repent, apologize to the woman and all those you may have stumbled or led astray. Remember your accountability isn’t towards men…but to our Lord God Jesus Christ.
On the February 14 Pastor’s Perspective program, Chuck Smith and Don Stewart began the program by offering vague unspecified “information” for Nicki in Riverside.
Then they went on to reaffirm their original advice, explaining that the call screener had told them that Nicki might die.
No repentance. Only arrogance against Christian brothers for “falsely accusing” them. Nothing about how they could have encouraged Nicki to trust in God to be glorified by the babies in her womb.
Tim I disagree with you. You said:
“Then they went on to reaffirm their original advice, explaining that the call screener had told them that Nicki might die.”
There was never any mention of any ‘call screener’ that I could hear. Maybe I’m on a different wavelength!
What is unfortunate, is the total lack of compassion expressed by those who profess a protection for the unborn and yet a total callousness to a suffering mother. I’m sure that this devisive and critical press is adding to her pain.I do want to see abortion abolished, and do mourn for those who are being systematically exterminated, but there is a world of difference in what was being spoken by Pastor Chuck, and the knee-jerk responses. If for the sake of a cause, we jump to attack at the pain of a tragic situation…and the agenda becomes more important than the person…and reasonableness and understanding are thrown out for fear…then we’ve really got a problem. Division is not the answer.
Where to begin…First I want to say I am pro life. I believe abortion is wrong in every circumstance except to save the woman’s life at her or her families request (if that circumstance actually did exist). I believe to say that “Abortion under any circumstance is always wrong” is naivete and stems from poor moral reasoning. There has been a few medical cases where the child was killing the mother and the only way to save the mother was to kill the child (because the child was so early in development removing the child from the womb killed it). Now I do not believe in butchering the child in the womb, but rather removing the child from the womb and attempting to save it, but at such an early stage there is 100% no hope for the child. These cases are extremely rare but worth mentioning for the sake of discussion.
Now I applaud any attempt to save the life of the unborn, so good job in that goal. But I am extremely disappointed in how you have treated Chuck, Kwave, and Calvary.
Allow me to explain. I was at Calvary when protesters came on Friday. I assume they were from your organization. Frankly the way they behaved was not very Christian nor charitable. They attempted to disrupt the business of Kwave under the guise of wanting to save a life. Their methods were forceful at best. Calling the station non-stop with as many phones as possible, tying up as many phone lines as possible, demanding to get put on the air, are all poor methods of persuasion and not how God calls his people to act. Surely there are better methods for addressing one’s concerns? And if one’s concerns are ignored ultimately that is not one’s business, for everyone stands before God on their own. God calls us to do our best, and after that leave it up to him. If Chuck ignores advice or correction that is between him and God, you should only seek to communicate with him if possible, not force a conversation.
In the future I would recommend a more humble, loving, and charitable approach from anyone associated with your organizations. Attempting to force your views, or desires on someone else will not get you very far. Rather it is better to seek to win their hearts and their minds. Hind site, perhaps the best approach would be to call the church and leave a message of concerns and ask politely to be contacted. Perhaps call Kwave and email both with their public emails. Write polite letters. Even show up with one person and deliver a hand message and card. But to swarm the area and flood the organization with calls was over the line, it makes no one want to hear your message if you do it flexing your muscles. I am not excusing any response on the organization’s part, but just commenting on what I saw with my own eyes.
Also it is my understanding that Chuck was told by the call screener that her life was threatened. Just because he didn’t mention the fact on air, doesn’t mean that perhaps it didn’t play into his response. However, I am not excusing his response, for I believe it was poorly expressed (even under these facts), although I am sure his heart was in the right place. Ought we not have more charity for our brothers and sisters in Christ and assume only the best? Ought we not approach those we think are in error with love and charity? Sure error needs to be addressed but there is a right way and a wrong way to address it.
Ryan,
First of all, it wasn’t our group that protested at the radio station so therefore you have made your first false assumption. Perhaps you do not fully comprehend the situation. Nicki’s life was not in imminent danger and we knew that having dealt with pregnant women, many with complicated pregnancies, for nearly 30 years. If it was, Nicki would have been in the hospital receiving emergency treatment — not calling in to a radio talk show. In fact, the pro-life physician whose number was given to Nicki did not think her life was in danger, either. In any case, even if her life was in imminent danger, the solution is to deliver the babies (via C-Section, if necessary) and then work to save the lives of everyone. Abortion is never an acceptable answer. Smith’s answer irresponsibly placed the lives of those babies in needless jeopardy — as well as Nicki’s because of the high risks associated with the kind of abortion to which she would be subjected. Do you really think the inconvenience of a few phone calls was too much to potentially save three lives? Your response shows a lack of information about abortion and about moral and ethical options. There are ample Internet resources for you to read that can help you become better informed. We suggest you take advantage of them.
Yep, Chuck gave some bad advice, just as we all have at one time or another. His track record is pretty good, though. We have hundreds of thousands of brothers and sisters thanks to God’s use of this man, but because he missteps regarding your favorite cause, he is the devil himself (to some). He’s still a man of God and a great pastor. I think that you should call him out on what he said, but remember that your activism ahould take second place behind your love. Some of you get very mean when someone doesn’t “toe the line” just the way you think they should. Saving the lives of babies is important, but not as important as saving people’s souls from an eternity separated from God – which Chuck has been used to do thousands of times. Please keep loving this good man (who said something dumb).
A long time ago I was given advice from a fellow Christian “dont follow the man, you will be disapointed-follow Jesus”.
I have a lot of respect for Pastor Chuck as an excellent expositor of the scriptures, but when it comes to advocating something as dreadful as this, sorry, gotta go with what is right. But I will say this, I didnt expect to get lambasted from fellow “Christians” for being critical of a man-who was wrong. As I understand the scriptures, we are to address these things as wrong-or we are just as guilty as the individual who committed the wrong.
What everyone here in defending Chuck Smith seems to be forgetting is that the enemies of “Life”, the “pro-choice” people and the secular media are going to have a field day with this horrific counsel from a “Pastor” and one who is so “popular” with modern Christendom! When someone, and I don’t care if it was Billy Graham, makes this kind of gross misrepresentation of what should have been Godly counsel, and they do it publicly, they need to be ready and willing to be held accountable for their words. Chuck Smith did NOT recant, in fact he made matters worse by trying to defend and even twist scripture to make it appear as though he had done nothing wrong. If you are going to be willing to “put yourself out there” to give counsel and advice, you better be willing to be “taken to the wood shed” if you get it wrong, and be a Godly man about it and admit it and move on…don’t ignore it and don’t cover it up…that’s just plain arrogance and pride. I Timothy says that we are to correct an elder or a teacher IN FRONT of witnesses, so that everyone knows what happened and so that it doesn’t happen again. Chuck Smith claims to adhere strictly to scripture, but here he seems to not find to his benefit to do so. It is the appropriate thing for the Body of Christ to correct him. If he is not willing to answer phone calls or meet with anyone in private to address the matter, then he only leaves us THIS choice to help him AND others understand the error of his ways. I am not saying the man is totally evil by any stretch of the imagination, but he made a very BAD mistake and he needs to “cop” to it and ask for forgiveness…that’s the long and short of the whole thing. If Chuck Smith won’t do that, then he leaves the Body of Christ open to attack and the case for the enemies of the pro-life stand is made FOR them…that’s a real tragedy in and of itself.
The fact that Chuck Smith and Don Stewart were both arrogant enough to think they could offer anything to this poor lady in distress but a REAL counselor whose dealt with this to talk to, is another real tragedy. That they are ignorant of the help and comfort and support that she needed was, at best, a travesty! There are many, many places around our country that offer women with Nikki’s plight REAL help, and they should have gone out of their way and above and beyond the call to get her that kind of love and support, not defend themselves for their ignorance and sin.
“All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing”. Edmund Burke
Sigh. My heart breaks for Nikki. I think Pastor Smith spoke for himself, and from his humanity, instead of as a spiritual adviser. I don’t believe that she could convey the full depth of her circumstances to him, and have him respond with w…ell thought-out advice, in the brief span of an on-air radio call.
The fact is, WE do not KNOW how long those babies will survive. They could pass in utero, minutes after birth, or in a rocking chair at 85 years old. Only God knows that.
Telling Nikki that God will not condemn her for aborting her babies will not negate her condemning herself. If she aborts, she will always wonder if they would’ve survived and thrived. Even if they are destined to Heaven after mere moments here, she will long for the closure of holding them, kissing them goodbye, and burying them.
Nikki is mourning a negative prenatal diagnosis. Her babies might not make it. If she aborts, none of her mourning and grief will be erased, only driven into the underground of her heart, covered in guilt and doubt, and obscured to others because “they were never really here”.
There are no easy answers. I am praying for Nikki, and for Pastor Smith. May everyone involved seek God’s own heart and not their personal agendas.
Why is it so hard today for pastors to 1) Go out to a deathcamp and pray on the sidewalk and/or hold a prolife sign and 2) to just say “I don’t know the answer but let’s pray for God’s wisdom now”.
Unfortunatley by the time Don kept saying ‘we are out of time’ etc he could have said a prayer. Not enough humility and prayer in this day and age!
Chuck Smith is a MAN…and therefore, a sinner. His sin in his pride that he feels that he can override the LAW OF GOD (“You shall NOT KILL.) He will answer to the Almighty God one day. Until then, an apology to the woman and a retractioin of his comment to the public would indicate his humility.
He who has shown no mercy wont receive it themselves. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
I agree with pastor Chucks counsel. Even if I didnt, I wouldnt be doing THIS.
I hope all of you that are so harshly judging him receive mercy in direct measure to how much you have extended.
How far as Christian brothers and sisters do we go in correcting one another privately before we go public? How has his church responded back when you contacted him privately? Everything still feels surreal.
Nature makes mistakes, I think the pastor was right in his advice to the lady. I have only listened to him once. I don’t know him, though I have no doubt that he would call me deceived, because I’m not a Pauline Christian.
If my wife and I knew our baby was mentally retarded, we would abort the baby. The reason is… as it matured it could not repent and if it cannot repent it cannot be saved.
It is sad… but life is life and life is also about death. It’s about Elohim and our relationship with our Lord, and Savior, Jesus, and how we deal with the difficult things in life and how we live it!
Someone who believes in real Life, following the Christ, will know you showed mercy for the babe.
Many of you, I’d be careful. Most would be total hypocrites if you were in a situation like Nicki’s. Most are hypocrites anyway. EVERYONE SINS. Don’t sin. Go ahead, try it. Nice try. No matter how hard we try, we fall short. Thank you, Jesus. It’s so easy for us to sit back and say absolutely, NO ABORTION. NEVER! It’s in Nicki’s voice. You can hear it. She doesn’t want to abort spiritually, and that’s what’s so hard for her. No matter how many people tell her not to, she may just end up doing it. Then would you comfort her and say, “GOD will forgive you”? Or would you throw stones and condemn her because YOU told her not to. Chuck kept saying “if YOU decide to do this”. He obviously knew how distraught she was. If she decided on keeping the baby, God would ultimately handle it, we know that, but GOD has a propose for everything and GOD is constantly testing everyone of us always. Maybe how we judge this situation. Maybe God sent her to Chuck so she’d let go. GOD knows what’s in her heart.
I would like for those who feel that these men gave horrible, ungodly advise address the issue of ectopic pregnancies. Would you tell a pregnant woman whose baby had implanted in her fallopian tube to just trust God to take care of the situation, or would you urge her to go to the ER and have her pregnancy terminated? I am just saying that there are absolutely some grey areas in which we must exhibit consideration. In such cases, those involved must seek God for His direction, and behooves us to display loving kindness and not condemnation. I believe that was the message of these precious men, who are not doctors, nor do they claim to be experts in obstetrics. To make a issue of this situation only weakens our credibility, and brings division among us who believe in the sanctity of life.
The way you have responded to the pastors sounds an awful lot like the pharisees. They were always looking for an occasion to condemn people. Why don’t you find something better to attack besides men who have devoted themselves to encouraging people in Christ our Lord. What they said is not so extreme as to elicite the nasty attitude of Operation Rescue.
I understand. The problem is with principle. You see, Pastor Chuck Smith claims abortions are wrong, but he advises compromise. This points to something obvious; Pastor Chuck Smith is not perfect. Sure, he is technically right. God can forgive a mother who has aborted her child because Jesus took that sin upon himself. Any true believer is given the right to become a child of God despite our stumbles. But, it is still against God. Does this mean he is evil, against God or an anti-Christ? Nope… his answer was of human nature- again pointing to his imperfection. I believe the biggest problem here isn’t the man, but is the sin. I believe Pastor Chuck Smith has been reborn in the spirit. I believe this because I see the fruits of his labor. I believe mainly because in the few years that I have listened to Pastor Chuck Smith I have grown into a stronger personal relationship with Jesus Christ. But this is just my testimony which means nothing to many. I would love to give some advice. When we are looking for answers why go to the web? We can humbly ask the Lord for the truth and get an answer strait from him through Jesus. I pray that I listen. I’m barley 17 and my life has so many uncertainties because I don’t always listen and God hasn’t opened my eyes in all areas… I think something bad taints this page when we only tear down instead of build up the body of Christ. If this issue really bothers your conscious you ought to help Pastor Chuck Smith by advising him with lovingkindness- not blogging about his flaws. What good is that? Is that what God wills?
PS: The Gospel of John really leaves your soul in peace. I recommend reading it in it’s entirety.
you will be judged as you are judged… if Chuck Smith made a mistake in his words he will answer to the Lord for that. However the division that is being caused here by people’s destructive comments toward him and Calvary Chapel are dividing the body of Christ, his bride, which I believe is breaking His heart.
I am 100% prolife, to the point where not only have I done sidewalk counseling outside of abortion clinics, as well as volunteered during my college years counseling women in a prolife Christian clinic. But furthermore I carried my own baby, who was diagnosed early with a fatal genetic disease, despite all medical advice to abort, until his heart stopped beating and the Lord took him. At that point I gave birth to my little boy, held him in my arms, and praised the Lord that he allowed me to carry him the months that I did. I have lived out not aborting when all the doctors said I should.
In all of that I could easily point my finger at Chuck, but how many times should my words have caused fingers to point at me, and yet the only fingers I see are the ones that are connected to the hands with holes in them. This comment I am leaving is not to fight or argue, it is a strong exhortation to stop causing division. Chuck, as a teacher, is even more accountable to the Lord, let the Lord be the one to correct him as He sees fit. In the meantime, remember, love covers over a multitude of sins. And at the end of the day any baby that is aborted is in our creator’s arms, but if the enemy uses this defamation to cause people to fall away from the faith, and souls are lost, well then what great of a cost we have paid, and what little fruit we have gained.
I believe that Chuck was wrong in what he said, but I believe that these posts are piling sin upon sin. Please, instead of casting the stone, I encourage everyone, please pray! Not only for Chuck Smith, but for all pastors and men in leadership. The enemy so desires to take them out. So everyone time you feel anger over this radio clip, pray for Chuck instead of defaming him… I promise that that will be much more effective and powerful in the end… (the prayers of a righteous man availeth much)
I agree with Meagan. People do use abortion for whatever suits their lifestyle! Its wrong and is murder. The very next day Pastor Chuck Smith did explain his comment further. People are quick to judge christians in a heart beat! But yet just mention the name JESUS and those same people can call us names and turn our words around. I worked for an ob-gyn office a few years back and I have also worked for an Oncologist-Hematologist before that. I know people who would use invitro fertilzation and have multiple live births in their womb then pick and choose the sex they wanted to live and abort what they didn’t want to live! Playing God and terminating what they do and don’t want to fit their perfect lives! Where’s the justice in that?
I wonder if it was Chuck who told Tim Tebow’s mom to get an abortion.
Hopefully Nikki didn’t take this creep’s advice.
We really don’t know all of what God wants and all of what he doesn’t. God would not have made doctors if He didn’t want people to have medical attention because God is sovereign over all things. Every case of conjoined twins is different and you can’t base your emotional decision off of a pair that are doing fine. That may have not been the case with the woman that called in. The only thing the pastor had to go off of was the doctor’s recommendations. It is a guessing game based on that. If you actually had detailed knowledge of the situation, then you can make an informed decision. It is silly to say no abortion under any circumstance because that is for God to decide. That is ungodly talk there. If that were true, then all medical intervention would be a sin. Man can’t thwart anything God does or doesn’t already have planned already. All that we can do is try to follow what we think is His will as best as we can along the way. The rest will take care of itself. I’m not a free willy so…!
Oh yea, if you are following and undertsand your Bible and what its meassage is, you won’t have any hero’s from man. Stop the hero worship because it is the same as Saint worship and the same as idol worship. Stop letting your emotions rule you and remember a pastor is just a man and he isn’t anymore holy than you are. Men makes mistakes which is why you check everything the preach with the Bible and you don’t use their commentary for help either. Sola Scriptura all you sheeple!
Wow…I am so late with this. I like Pastor Chuck Smith. I called kwave a few times with question. However, he goes about the questions that is asked…he really does not have ample time to consult the spirit for answers. This woman called in distressed to the core of her spirit. Im sure she has her own Pastor. If she goes to the church,why did she called the station other than making a private appointment? GOD has HIS reasons so I guess this was one to see how HIS children will react to one another. After reading this…Operation did a good job of supporting the devils work in causing divison. There were some serious stone casting here…you are the ones that should be repenting. I am not commenting on the abortion thing because people gets retared wen it comes to that subject. All I can say is those who voted for Obama didnt know he supports gays and abortion rights…so stop attacking GOD’s messengers.
I think what pastor chuck ment was something like this He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. (Matthew 12:3, 4, 7 NIV). But whatever… I hope u people don’t really think ur making a difference… U all just sound like a bunch of clinging symbols.