Comments on: Minister Arrested For Reading Verse At Abortionist’s Church

By: Gera Schmidt

Gera Schmidt — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 14:22:34 +0000

Tiller has his demonic hands in every pocket in the country. His going to church is another method of delighting the devil. The devil dances in this church, and the spiritual is a mockery. If he wanted salvation, that would be another story… perhaps he does? The demon is bloated by his appearance and sheeple members embracing his presence. Totally intolerable! What a sick bunch of butcher bathers swimming in his cesspool existence. Gives Christians such a bad reputation. Not unlike the Catholic Church that hasn’t publicly ex-communicated Catholic Pro-Abort politicians and those voting for them.

By: Paulette

Paulette — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 03:38:46 +0000

Frank,
I just came across this thread today and I don’t know if you will ever see this, but I think this is a powerful illustration. But first let me say, ” Me thinks you have submitted more than a few legal briefs and haven given more than a few closing arguments.” That being said, let’s take a look at the overwhelming impact of civil disobedience. I don’t know if you have read “The Hand of God” by former abortionist,Bernard Nathanson, M.D., but he gives a first hand account of how the civil disobedience of members of Operation Rescue played a defining role in his conversion from atheism to christianity.
(Page 191):
Then I attended an action by Operation Rescue against Planned Parenthood in New York City in 1989. I was planning an article to be published in an ethics journal on the moral and ethical aspects of such demonstrations. Were they legitimate protests or domestic terrorism–that is, the denial of constitutionally based rights to pregnant women?
The morning of the Rescue was bitterly cold. I joined the legion, twelve hundred demonstrators, at their rendevous in the west forties in Manhattan and proceeded with them by subway and foot to the clinic on Second Ave. and Twenty-fourth Street. They sat themselves down in rows in front of the clinic, effectively blocking entrances to and exits from the abortion clinic. They began to sing hymns softly, joining hands and swaying from the waist, I circulated on the periphery at first, obeserving the faces, interviewing some of the participants, making notes furiously: It was only then that I apprehended the exaltation, the pure love on the faces of that shivering mass of people, surrounded as they were by hundreds of New York City policemen.
They prayed, they supported and encouraged each other, they sang hymns of joy, and they constantly reminded each other of the absolute prohibition against violence. It was, I suppose, the sheer intensity of the love and prayer that astonished me. They prayed for the unborn babies, for the confused and frightened pregnant women, and for the doctors and nurses in the clinic. They even prayed for the police and the media who were covering the event. They prayed for each other, but never for themselves. And I wondered: HOW CAN THESE PEOPLE GIVE OF THEMSELVES FOR A CONSTITUENCY THAT IS (AND ALWAYS WILL BE) MUTE, INVISIBLE, AND UNABLE TO THANK THEM?
Page (193)
Now, I had not been immune to the religious fervor of the pro-life movement. I had been aware in the early and mid-eighties that a great many of the Catholics and Protestants in the ranks had prayed for me, were praying for me, and I was not unmoved as time went on. But, it was not until I saw the spirit put to the test on those bitterly cold demonstration mornings, with pro-choicers hurling the most fulsome epithets at them, the police surrounding them, the media openly unsympathetic to their cause, the federal judiciary fining and jailing them, and municipal officials threatening them–all through it they sat smiling, quietly praying, singing, confident and righteous of their cause and inerradicably persuaded of their ultimate triumph–that I began seriously to question what indescribable Force generated them to this activity. Why, too, was I there?
What had led me to this time and place? Was it the same Force that allowed them to sit serene and unafraid at the epicenter of legal, physical, ethical, and moral chaos?
AND FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY ENTIRE LIFE, I began to entertain seriously the notion of God–a god who problematically had led me through the proverbial circles of hell, only to show me the way to redemption and mercy through His grace.
So, Frank, those people were engaged in illegal conduct and their conduct certainly was “rude & inappropriate”. After all they were blocking the doors of a perfectly legitimate business, frightening women, frustrating employees, and making people down right mad, but they also helped to save a soul by their obedience to God. God gives everyone, individually and collectively, a “FOR SUCH A TIME AS THIS” place in their lives. That was Operation Rescue’s strategy for that time and who are we to say that this was not Rev. Shaver’s and Mr. Cox’ time. Just as OR’s “inappropriate” behavior may not have appealed to the masses, there is no denying the powerful impact it has had on this country. Countless souls and babies have been saved through their efforts. You know when the woman caught in adultery was about to be stoned, Jesus stepped in to stop a perfectly legal pratice. Not only did he admonish the stoners and the stonee, but he changed lives that day. There is no doubt in my mind that God planted a seed in someone in the congregation’s heart to be FOR Him and the unborn on the day of Rev. Shaver’s admonishment. By the way, I thought, as christians, we aren’t supposed to bring each other to court. I leave you with this thought…Evil flourishes when good men do nothing.. Thanks for your time.

By: Cinda Wood

Cinda Wood — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 05:56:45 +0000

From what I read in the Word, it says “If my people, who are called by My Name, will humble themselves and pray, I will hear and heal their land.

Yes, the blood of so many cry from the ground of Wichita and other places, but if we truly do things God’s way, we ourselves will humble before a powerful, wonderful God and cry out – He hears and answers and will heal our land.

I also do not know if Rev. Shaver was sent by God to give warning. If so, it would not matter what any of us think as he must do as God leads.

If you look back at history, the year Wichita put up their keeper of the plains, BTK started killing, Tiller started his killing, and deaths increased over Wichita. From what I read now, sounds like many are finally praying, as they caught BTK, keeper came down (went back up facing the East this time) and Tiller is now in jail.

C Wood

By: Bob C.

Bob C. — Thu, 02 Aug 2007 18:51:06 +0000

George Tiller is an abomination. Apparently, he has a different doctors oath than what we all know. His oath is to kill & destroy. The more the merrier. Frank, I think all of us know that what these two gentlemen did was probably inappropriate, however, given what’s at stake, that being our future, I tip my hat to them for taking action. If this country would rise up & wake up to the atrocities occuring dailey at Tiller’s abortion mill, Lord knows we could shut it down. History has it civil disobiedence can & does work. Every morning delivering my papers I pray the Hail Mary for the conversion of one George Tiller. I refuse to call Tiller a doctor. He truly is a killer. Let’s all say a few Hail Mary’s for the conversion of George Tiller. Best wishes. Bob

By: Rodger

Rodger — Fri, 27 Jul 2007 22:16:51 +0000

Frank,

I would agree with you Pastor shaver broke the law. So did rosa parks; With any great stand you must count the cost. Bud shaver I hope you counted the cost. I would rather serve time in the wichita jail then any time in Tillers estate. This proverbs its sunday school stuff.

Do i think hijacking the serve was okay?
I think God isnt concerned about the reading of the word or the intruption. What i understand from the word of God about Gods Character is that he sometimes send His people into churchs and communitys to give the “word of the Lord” and it hurts sometimes. So maybe it was okay, for the sake of the body of christ
The Christian walk isnt bound in legalism.

Stephanie,

I love your zeal!
remember so soil isnt ready for the seed yet it needs turned and prepared. Nice stand.

To the Body of Christ!!
the bible tells us about Blood Guilt

Tillers murders are on our hands.

by the blood that speaks louder than the blood of able,
Rodger

By: Alayna Staggers (Nurse)

Alayna Staggers (Nurse) — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:47:23 +0000

How many babies must die a gruesome, painful death while we are being “politically correct,” and making our way through the “red tape” of politics to end abortion? The abortionists are “laughing in our face,” as well as the “face of God.” I am sure if you were the baby bearing the brunt of his knife, you would feel HE WAS THE “TERRORIST!” To intellectualize abortion is the way we “distance ” ourselves from the reality. We don’t want to know. We don’t want to feel the pain. The harshness, the brutality, the blood, the cries of the unborn is a profound sadness which we don’t want to include into our daily thoughts! We are too busy with maintaining our “peaceful satisfying lives,” we don’t want the interruption. It is too “disconcerting!” It is much easier to follow Emily Post’s or Dear Abby’s advice to “Go through the proper channels.” And why would anyone want to RISK their life or their “business or personal reputation” to speak out in a way that would get attention? No, “nice citizens” work behind “closed doors.” They give a little money now and then, or donate some baby clothes to an organization and think they have done their job. THIS IS WHY WE HAVE ABORTION TODAY! THE CHRISTIANS ARE AFRAID TO SAY ANY THING WHICH MAY ROCK THE BOAT! WE SIT AROUND AND WAIT FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO DO SOMETHING GO THROUGH THE “PROPER CHANNELS.”>>>but GUESS WHAT!!!THE POLITICIANS IN KANSAS ARE CORRUPTLY “PROTECTING” TILLER! TILLER DOESN”T GET IT! HE THINKS HE IS ABOVE THE LAW!!!!!!
So much for “political correctness!” These people are in this for the money which abortion provides them! Tiller has escaped prosecution for killing full term babies. How much longer must this go on? Shall we just WHISPER TO MR. TILLER, “PLEASE DON”T MUTILATE ANY MORE INNOCENT BABIES TO PUT MONEY IN YOUR POCKET. Shall we just WHISPER TO ATTORNEY GENERAL MORRISON, “NOW THAT’S NOT NICE TO LOOK THE OTHER WAY.” I know I am angry and sickened by abortion. I feel it in my heart and soul. The pain of these babies should weigh upon all of our hearts! I know our Lord is displeased with how we have handled this situation. I am thankful that Rev. “Bud” Shaver has taken upon himself this cross to bear and with great courage declared himself a “man of God.!” This is how I see it. I myself have felt for a long time that “SOMEONE” needed to confront George Tiller in his own church with his own people! FINALLY! GOD! Jesus certainly did not follow “proper protocol” when He was on this earth! That’s why He was crucified!

Acts 4:31 ” And when they had prayed, the place was SHAKEN where they were assembled together: and they were ALL FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST, AND THEY SPOKE THE WORD OF GOD WITH BOLDNESS.
Acts 4:32″ And the MULTITUDE OF THEM THAT BELIEVED WERE OF ONE HEART AND OF ONE SOUL.”

By: Stephanie H

Stephanie H — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:52:48 +0000

Frank,

I know you don’t accept God’s Word has the final authority, but please do consider these verses from Acts 5:

16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
17 Â¶ Then the high priest rose up, and all they that were with him, (which is the sect of the Sadducees,)and were filled with indignation,
18 And laid their hands on the apostles, and put them in the common prison.
19 But the angel of the Lord by night opened the prison doors, and brought them forth, and said,
20 Go, stand and speak in the temple to the people all the words of this life.
21 And when they heard that, they entered into the temple early in the morning, and taught. But the high priest came, and they that were with him, and called the council together, and all the senate of the children of Israel, and sent to the prison to have them brought.
22 But when the officers came, and found them not in the prison, they returned, and told,
23 Saying, The prison truly found we shut with all safety, and the keepers standing without before the doors: but when we had opened, we found no man within.
24 Now when the high priest and the captain of the temple and the chief priests heard these things, they doubted of them whereunto this would grow.
25 Then came one and told them, saying, Behold, the men whom ye put in prison are standing in the temple, and teaching the people.
26 Â¶ Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned.
27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,
28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man’s blood upon us.
29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Frank, Jesus was in continual violation of man’s laws, as were the prophets and the disciples. Whenever there was a conflict between the two, God’s Word always trumped. I’m not advocating rebellion or law breaking, but every Christian has a duty FIRST to God, then to man. One of the saddest verses in all of Scripture is when the chief priests made this statement: ” We have no king but Caesar!” John 19:15b How sad……they rejected the King of Kings over a mortal man. Even the “religious” paid more homage to an earthly ruler than the Son of Man.

And lastly:

“All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God maybe complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.” 2 Timothy 3:16-17

Enough said…..

By: Frank

Frank — Mon, 23 Jul 2007 00:39:40 +0000

Rev. Shaver, although I admire your zeal and respect your goal, I’d like to respectfully point out a few items:

1. The City Code provides as follows:

“Every person…who at any time interrupts or molests any religious society…when meeting or met together for the purpose of worship…disquiets or disturbs any congregation…BY MAKING A NOISE, OR by rude and indecent behavior…”

The statute is disjunctive. One can disrupt worship by making a noise — regardless of what “noise” is being made. Conversely, one can be “rude and indecent” silently or very softly — but it’s “disruptive” just the same.

It seems to me that it is not entirely intellectually honest to ask, “since when is reading from scripture considered “rude and indecent”? Instead, it appears the violation came from “making noise,” and/or interrupting the service itself, rather than by being “rude and indecent.”

2. It is not clear, but I am curious: Do you think there is ever a WRONG time to read scripture? Your position in this respect seems to be that the “message,” i.e. Scripture, is always allowable, regardless of the time and place, merely because it “is” Scripture, i.e., the fact that it is scripture makes it allowable to say it whenever you wish whether you are welcome to do so or not. If there is a “wrong” time to read scripture, when is that time?

3. I agree that the stance of Tiller’s church is EXTREMELY disconcerting, if not absolutely offensive to Jesus. Willful blindness and/or absolving oneself of all moral decisions is not a good thing. However, I cannot help but ask a followup question to any who think it is “acceptable” to stand up and disrupt a church service: What interruptions are allowable and which aren’t? The bottom line is that if some interruptions ARE allowable, then who decides which are and which aren’t? The Bible? Which verison? Which particular pastor’s interpretation of which particular passasge therein, given the wide variety of interpretations of the Bible and sects of Christianity? Can you interrupt the Catholic Mass I attend and start shouting scripture if you deem my actions unbiblical? If so, why? If not, why not?

It seems to me that the City Code codifies what all Christians ought to be able to figure out without much teaching: Interrupting a church service is a bad thing — period. If the response is, “I’m going to do it anyway to teach these people the truth, make them repent, etc.,” people are going to take steps to stop such behavior, if only because in this sick world many people who claim to “know the truth” may be on drugs, whacked out of their mind, etc., and/or pose a threat to everyone else.

I agree with you that churches should do more to oppose abortion. However, one well-known “pro-life” firebrand had the (not-so-) bright idea to protest abortion at a Catholic Church because (as I understand it) he decided that particular church wasn’t doing enough to end abortion. We will leave aside the fact that the Catholic Church is probably the single greatest advocate for unborn in human history. I respectfully suggest that mainstream Christians are only going to see such conduct as right-wing insanity, if not terrorism. People who oppose disruptions of church services aren’t being “politically correct,” so much as they are being “mainstream,” by not tolerating such conduct, and by passing civil laws to prevent it.

I appreciate your sincerity (although I oppose your means). I pray you continue to share the Gospel with the world and are safe doing so.

Regards,
Frank

By: Stephanie H

Stephanie H — Sun, 22 Jul 2007 02:53:02 +0000

Bud,

I commend you for your boldness, and may the Lord’s blessings rest upon you.

Stephanie

By: Sarah

Sarah — Sun, 22 Jul 2007 02:39:54 +0000

AMEN!!!!!

I grew up in church, my father was a deacon. I attended a private Christian school from kindergarten to 12th grade when I graduated. I went to a Christian college. I can’t EVER remember the sin of abortion being preached on or condemned from the pulpit. i agree totally with Rev. Shaver! a girl a little younger than me that also grew up going to this christian school started doing drugs and having sex (when she was in her 20’s) and got pregnant. convinced that the drugs had deformed her baby and afraid to tell her parents that she was pregnant she had an abortion. this is a supposedly born-again Christian! If she could succumb to Satan’s lies, then anyone can! we must educate our children early so that they don’t make these same mistakes when they’re older. we must speak out for our unborn brothers and sisters! Maybe God will strike Tiller’s heart with his words…no one is out of the reach of God’s mercy. I pray for Tiller every day. Its not too late for him!