New abortion injury comes just five weeks after death of woman after abortion
WICHITA, KS — An ambulance carrying a patient of Women?s Health Care Services, the infamous late-term abortion mill owned by George Tiller, arrived silently and without fanfare at the Wesley Medical Center Emergency Room at 11:21 AM today, just 5 weeks after one of Tiller’s patients died after a similar trip. Operation Rescue Staffers photographed the scene as emergency workers unloaded a woman completely shrouded in a blanket. The woman’s body was strapped to the gurney at the ankles, hips, and shoulders.
Witnesses detected no movement from the woman nor did they observe the usual IV bags and other medical paraphernalia that is commonly seen attached to women who have been transported to the Emergency Room from WHCS, an unlicensed and unregulated facility classified as a “doctor’s office” where dangerous second and third trimester abortions are performed.
Departing from routine, Tiller employee Edna Roach, driving a minivan registered to Tiller, sped past the Emergency Room parking lot where she normally arrives, and parked instead at the hospital?s main entrance. Roach transported a passenger in the minivan who may have been another Tiller employee, late-term abortionist LeRoy Carhart, who was scheduled for duty at WHCS according to a calendar posted to Tiller’s website. There was no sign of Tiller.
About an hour later, Operation Rescue staffer Adam McArthur, was escorted by two men from the Sedgwick County Emergency Communications Office after Director Diane Gage denied his Kansas Open Records Act (KORA) request for the 911 audio file and CAD transcript.
“We are aware that these are public records,” said Operation Rescue president Troy Newman. “It is against the law to hide these public records and not release them when legal request has been made, as Adam did. These records are not part of any criminal investigation and do not contain the name of the patient. Why risk breaking the law by refusing to release them unless there is something to hide? Operation Rescue will file a civil suit against the county to obtain those records, if necessary. The truth must come out about the numbers of women injured and killed by George Tiller and his cohorts, so that other women do not suffer the same tragic fate.”
“We don’t know if this woman is alive or dead,” said witness Cheryl Sullenger. “Again, for the second time in five weeks, we demand the suspension of Tiller and Carhart?s licenses pending investigation. How many more women must be injured or even die before something is done to safeguard women from the Butchers of Bleckley?”
Maybe she slipped and fell and bumped her head?
Jade: it would have to be a pretty severe “bump” to require an ambulance. And why would they cover her up completely and strap her to the gurney with 3 straps?
As an aside, I don’t see how someone can abuse their medical training by killing and still like what they see in the mirror. I always thought medicine was about healing, not butchering innocent unborn babies…
If those in power would allow for a fair investigation, the truth of this will come forth.
Hopefully someone can get a name and again turn this into the state medical board. Even if she did bump her head (an absolutely ridiculous suggestion, by the way) that would be grounds for a lawsuit as well.
jade
let’s just call a spade a spade, shall we?
you are not just pro-tiller, you’re pro-death.
you hired tiller, all because you had been led to believe that your unborn child would die “anyway”, when you might have just let God be God and allowed your child to be born naturally and to die naturally. but instead, you hired tiller the killer to speed up the process, and now you are one of his cheerleaders.
one would think you would have a modicum of shame and not come on this site to defend the indefensible, when you know that what tiller does is to kill on demand. that’s what he does, that’s what he’s famous for, and that’s what he did for you.
Kokoroo90
They had to completely cover her in blankets im sure because ORW, Likes to take photographs of tillers patients when ever they can aswell as haras them. Im sure this was just for privacy.
Jade(d) pro-Killer,
Whose privacy?? All that would be necessary to protect the patient’s privacy would be a sheet draped over her. You mean, of course, the killer’s “privacy”. But this does not explain why she was strapped down, or the absence of any life-support equipment, two very legitimate questions to those of us who care about something besides continuing the woman& child slaughter.
Mock ORW all you want about “ambulance-chasing”, etc.; at least they aren’t putting women in the ambulances…or in the deathcoach after that. Your anti-hero, Tiller, does that, your support of him makes you, at least in spirit, his accomplice.
Documentation of dangers just like these are the reason ORW takes photos, not to “harass” people, as you have so falsely, ignorantly, calumniously and hypocritically opined…(If you were the one injured or killed by a violent assault, I have NO DOUBT that you would want the proverbial book thrown at the attacker in court, and if ORW- or anyone else- happened to have photographic documentation that would help you get justice, we all know you wouldn’t sneer at it or them. But you think you’re so much better than the women Tiller maims & kills, that they don’t deserve the consideration you’d want for yourself.
Jade(d), there’s nothing special, intelligent, complicated, or constructive about your posts on this. You worship Tiller because you find it easier than owning responsibility for your murder of your own child, or dealing with what he actually did to you. It’s all a mask, and you can’t hide behind it forever without retreating so far into denial of other realities that you go psychopathic. The only way you can dig a hole is deeper; stop digging this one now while you may still be able to get out and not just bury yourself.
We sincerely hope that you, and others who share your attitudes, especially for the same predatory reasons, figure out which side your bread’s buttered on, so to speak, while ORW & friends are around to offer you real assistance.
DON’T WAIT; YOU HAVE NO MORE GUARANTEE THAN THE WOMAN UNDER THE BLANKET THAT YOU WILL BE ALIVE TOMORROW.
Why hasn’t this news been reported in ANY major news outlet. Since abortion is a such a huge issue, shouldn’t it have been posted in any type of major publication Well, it hasn’t so we can’t assume anything.
As for the whole ‘pro-death’ thingm ask yourselves: Is a fetus really a human being? By looking at the characterists of life, the answers is clear: no.
Oh, and one more thing Dr. Tiller is a fine and respectable man. You have all been influenced by ORW’s propganda to violate womens rights.
Jade,
Before you make any unfounded claims about whether a human fetus is “life”, I suggest you get a basic biology textbook and start reading. Since you had your child murdered at 8 months, I understand that you need to put up some kind of defense for yourself so your conscience doesn’t overwhelm you.
Pro-lifers don’t hate you or Dr. Tiller. We hate what he does because it is a clear violation of the sanctity of human life.
May God convict you so you can turn to him before it is too late for you.
Jade,
You should be glad that it wasn’t you on the gurney. We are here to save babies and help misguided moms like you find the truth.
Troy
just a girl
the bottom line, no matter how you try in vain to couch the issue, is that you hired a man to have your unborn child killed. you say you wouldn’t have known what to do without tiller, apparently a “brave” person in your distorted worldview, because he kills for a living.
what you might have done was show a little class and carry the child and give it up for adoption. now that would’ve been brave. but it would’ve been the right thing to do. what you did was wrong, and you know it, or you wouldn’t be coming on here, trying to justify your godless decision.
if abortion is simply a matter of choice, then please tell us why it is a “gut-wrenching” decision. the reason it’s gut-wrenching is because abortion is when someone opts to have their own flesh and blood destroyed because of selfish reasons. many children conceived through a rape have gone on to become amazing people, such as ethyl waters.
interesting that you claim “rape”, but supposedly had tiller kill the baby when it was far advanced……
jade
there is no question in my mind that you need serious psychological help.
on previous posts, you’ve said that you cry “every day” for the child tiller killed for you at 8 1/2 months. yet in the post above, you say “Is a fetus really a human being? By looking at the characterists of life, the answers is clear: no.”
let me see if i get your distorted, convoluted thinking of correct here – a fetus (latin for ‘little one’) is not a human being, but you cry for the fetus you had destroyed “every day”?
why cry if it was not a human being, jade?
Jade,
My suggestion is that you stop trying to have any sort of rational discussion on this blog and find a nearby abortion clinic that is being blockaded by the so-called pro-lifers and support it.
just a girl quote “dr. tiller is the only one who was willing to perform my desperately needed abortion”
“but there is no way i should have been forced to give birth to my rapist’s child”
- These two statements tell me that you did indeed give birth to your rapist’s child…just that your baby was dead. You are a mother now whether you want to think of yourself as one or not. -
This is my first post here – I think the whole Tiller clinic is absoultely horrible. I am making a donation to ORW!
Although it is most likely the exact opposite of what you meant, Steve, your post raises an interesting point: In order to support a death camp, esp. one such as Tiller’s, the abandonment of anything rational (with the exception of rational-ization) is a definite prerequisite; and on this count, you & Jade both appear over-qualified. This is no doubt useful to Tiller & allies’ prodeath agenda, but it is hardly in the best interests of their “clientele” / supporters…or, ultimately, their own highest good.
Jade(d),
For what they are worth to you, here are a few facts re: your inquiry a few posts up: the DNA, present from the moment of fertilization, will tell you the species of any preborn being; if the DNA is human…the life is human. How can you discern vitality? The normal, standard index is growth: to sum up, the baby’s DNA will tell you whether or not you have a baby fish, a baby dolphin, baby kangaroo, baby cat, baby bird, etc. — somehow, I find it extremely unlikely that even you ever seriously considered those possibilities as any other than totally delusional, and with better, scientifically-based reason than is evident in your later efforts at denial- er, posts — and if the BABY is growing, then (s)he is alive.
I had begun to wonder whether or not you possess opposable thumbs; but then, (aside from that property being virtually essential to the ability to post anything) your referencing the mainstream press as a realiable truth index, and your obvious effort to justify your own and Tiller’s complicity in the murder of your daughter, provided an alternative explanation for your clear detachment from objective reality.
Give it up, Jade, before your mind gets so further jaded that, even though the choice remains, you can’t see it at all…if it’s not too late already.
All the (real) best,
Just Thinking,
So Jade and I abandoned rationality? Kind of like people like you who blog on to a website that brags about helping to elect a president who went to war in Iraq for reasons that turned out not to be true. What part of 1,500 dead U.S. soldiers, 10,000 wounded, and 100,000 dead Iraqi civilians do you find “rational?” Or is this part of some “pro-death agenda” that you and the other fundys have? Try not to engage in any
“rational-ization” while you dope that one out.
I would just like tohave it noted that the 2 posts above “a fetus isint a human being” and the one under it were NOT posted by me.. Somone used my name in that. A fetus is a human being and it is life.I realize this, im not that jade(d)
Steve:
Until you have asked Saddam Hussein & Al Qaeda your questions re: “1,500 [+]dead U.S. soldiers [& civilians], 10,000 wounded, and 100,000 dead Iraqi civilians”, then don’t expect us to be impressed with your rationality or your concern for human life…it’s not rational.
You blogged onto the same site, (which, you might have observed, offered some debate as to presidential candidates, and a clear alternative to Bush on pro-life grounds…)didn’t you, steve…?!
In any case, there is a huge difference (in terms of respecting life) between efforts to take on & take out a mass-murdering megalomaniac like Hussein and the mass murder of innocent children who have done nothing to attack or harm anyone and probably wouldn’t, except in legitimate self-defense, given the chance to live…(most people don’t).. Yes, some babies grow up to be serious threats to relatively innocent humanity: Tiller, Margaret Sanger, Hitler, Hussein, Lenin, Stalin, Jim Jones, and others come to mind…more just, though, to let them be proven guilty before dealing with them, as Bush has tried to do, and you have not…
Case rests!
Jade,
Sorry if you were misrepresented & misjudged; hope that your ‘copycat’ can at least come up with a moniker that does not deliberately confuse; “Jade2″ or something would be more conducive to clear communication. My other remarks, though, still stand, because the dangers they warn against are very real, as many post-abortive (wo)men prove.
With all DUE apologies…
ATT: Troy Newman
Yes I am thankful it was not me on the gurney or any gurney for that matter. However you could not of saved my baby Troy no one could of, which is why I was in kansas to see Dr Tiller. I was 8 and a half months beleive me I wanted that baby, but noone could save her. I was not misguided, I found the truth, and the truth was trisomy 22 is INCOMPATIBLE with life. Please dont be so quick to judge.
ATT: Steve
I live in Ontario, Canada we dont have many “abortion clinics” Most abortions here are performed at hospitals. There are a few clinics in toronto and they are certainly not being bombarded by “Pro lifers”…. majority of the people here beleive in differnt things, but one thing most canadians agree on is the freedom to make your own choices. We choose not to fight a mindless war in Iraq, We harbour U.S soldiers and other like them that come here seeking refuge from the war in Iraq. Thats a choice we as canadian make mecause we have the right to choose. I suggest you get out of the US your a victim of your own surroundings.
Ciao
Anyone who refers to Tiller, or any other active serial baby butcher, as “a fine, respectable man”, or child-killing as “a woman’s right”, has no room to talk about anyone else being influenced by propaganda!
ATT:tm
I make my own decicions, and I stand by them. Please dont be angry because I wont let you make my decisions for me.Women have rights and along with thoes rights comes decision making.. I think your all living in another time period.
just a girl
ok, now i understand. having given the child up for adoption, you would “wonder” where he or she is – imagine the stress you’d be under, not knowing all the details of his/her upbringing.
having paid tiller to kill the child, you can now rest easy knowing that that same child ended up in a dumpster somewhere, or in one of tiller’s auschwitz-style incinerators.
to say that your thinking is bizarre is an understatement of epidemic proportions.
but you say early in this last, rambling incoherent post, that you “never gave a thought to anything but abortion”. how mindless of you. how empty. how godless. there was plenty of real help available, and instead, you chose death.
to me, people who abort deserve the opportunity to repent and come to a realization of what they’ve done, and hopefully, be restored to a right way of thinking.
but people who come on this site and literally brag about their abortions make me sick to my stomach. have you no shame?
steve
just wondering….
when do you intend to START “thinking”? because your posts don’t illustrate a rational thought process, and are totally off topic. look for them to be zapped within a day or so, since you violated the rules by rambling on about the war and other unrelated topics.
most of the people who post on this site are thinkin
I agree with “just a girl” 100%
Just to let you all know 60% of dr tiller late term abortion patients at victims of Rape or Incest…..
just a girl
he’s a hired killer – period. the term “doctor” applies to health care specialists, people who try to save and heal their patients, not kill them. if he is not a baby-killer, then what exactly happened when you hired his services? obviously, you hired him to DO EXACTLY THAT! you are delusional.
but more than being self-deceived, you go even further, and are as proud of your abortion as most mothers are of their children.
Anthony,
Dr tiller does help save and heal his patients…..”The woman is the PATIENT” In some cases the abortion saves the womans life, and he does his best to begin the healing process for all of us!
jade(d)
is that “fact” in the tiller the killer literature?
if so, why, i guess you can go the bank with it. we all know how honest those fine, upstanding abortionists are – they kill for living, but of course, they are scrupulously honest with facts and figures….
please.
Dr tiller SAVES his patiens a lifetime of mental anguish in some caces EX: Rape and Incest
Jerome:
So because of his chosen occupation that YOU happen to disagree with, you can discredit him as fine and upstanding? Who are you to judge?
Just a girl yes i just got ur mail I will respond shortly
jade
i’m sure satan himself agrees with just a girl 100%.
i’m not sure that’s a plus for your argument, however.
jade(d)
if you think a man who kills for living is fine and upstanding, then i’m sure there are some mafia hit men you’d like to sing the praises of; maybe even have them over for dinner.
but if you are unable to “judge” or “discern” that slaughtering an innocent child in cold blood is wrong, then i’m not sure how you can determine that anything is wrong. after all, a rapist CHOOSES to rape – who are we to judge? the rapist has CHOSEN his lifestyle, and we who ‘happen’ to disagree with that lifestyle just
need to be tolerant, eh?
just a girl
you say that the “woman is patient” and is tiller’s main concern. i guess that’s why he rushes to the hospital every time he butchers another one, like in this story. only a few days ago, the same thing happened. you call a man who kills children for a living, burns them in his industrial size incinerator or sells their little bodies to the highest bidder (for all sorts of bizarre experiments), a ‘godsend’? actually, REAL doctors know that when dealing with a pregnant women, there are TWO patients, not one. only child killers like tiller treat the tiniest patient like a cancer that must be “removed”.
i can tell you this – people on this site know fully well what tiller is all about, and you won’t convince a single person of your so-called “truth”. because based on your posts, and various attempts to justify a poor decision, i don’t think you and the truth have ever made each other’s acquaintance.
oh, and your use of the word “warped” is a little like the pot calling the kettle black, is it not?
jade(d)
if my unborn child was diagnosed with a terrible disease, i would consider it an honor to hold that precious child, even if it did not draw a breath, because i am the child’s father. but i would NEVER, EVER pay a hired killer like tiller to snuff its tiny life out just because my little feelings might be hurt by having to be a loving father for a few brief moments after the child’s birth. and my wife would feel exactly the same.
let God be God.
I did hold my child.. whats your point?
Also your not a father for a few breif moments…Your a father for the rest of your life!
just a girl
your post did not make clear who you were calling a narrow-minded jerk, but that’s ok. people who respect human life usually appear that way to you poor choicers.
you say you send tiller a Christmas card every year….
just what is it that you celebrate on december 25th, if i might ask?
some of us celebrate a BIRTH….
Jerome
And some of us see it as a time to give thanks……..
jade(d)
you may have held what was left of your child, but you didn’t let God be God. and in your previous post, you insinuate that looking at a “horribly disfigured” child is emotionally too much…and yet, a natural birth is the loving, correct, moral option, no matter how the child looks or how or when it dies a natural death.
tiller’s methods unquestionably cause disfigurement, yet you’d prefer to look at that, then to look at the child born naturally? and you prefer knowing you paid to have that done, rather than letting the child be born naturally?
wow, what a maze of contradictions you are.
jade
tell you what – you worship and give thanks to tiller on dec. 25th – the rest of us will worship and give thanks to Jesus.
deal?
just a girl
i think it’s clear to all reading the posts above whose views are warped and whose are normal.
and as far as the “impeccable” record of tiller the killer……now that is just a bald faced lie. but i’m not surprised you believe it, since you seem to believe a whole lot of deceptive and strange things….
oh, and one last thing – it is not ‘close-minded’ to know the truth and stand by it. but it is possible to be so open-minded your brains fall out….
Ah, Jade(d) pro-killer!
“NOW DON’T THE DAYS SEEM LANK AND LONG
WHEN ALL GOES RIGHT AND NOTHING GOES WRONG;
AND ISN’T YOUR LIFE EXTREMELY FLAT
WHEN YOU’VE NOTHING WHATEVER TO GRUMBLE AT?!”
– W.S. Gilbert
It’s totally absurd for you to fuss about anyone being angry for “not letting [them] make [your] decisions for [you]“, considering the huge amount of responsibility for your collusion in the murder of your daughter that you’ve placed on some man with an m.d. who convinced you that somehow it’s OK to murder an innocent child if she is ill and “going to die anyway”…(not to mention the obvious fact that I was not around at the time to try to influence you one way or the other.) Not to be a sticker, but we’re all ill at some time or other, and we’re all going to die anyway…at some time or other…but that doesn’t make it ok for us to go around murdering people, especially those who mean us no harm and depend on our goodwill and good judgment for their very lives, because they can’t live up to our expectations or wishes. And yes, hiring a professional killer is the same, in God’s book, as killing the little girl outright, yourself.
Even if you had not been influenced by some social engineer posing as a healer, and made the decision totally without any input from anyone else, it would not make it more right and less wrong.
“Of all the words of tongue or pen, the saddest are, ‘It might have been’…”
Some 15 million U.S. women (a very conservative estimate, multiplied many times over worldwide) will never enjoy any legitimate rights because the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court cruelly crossed the line between basic human rights (the most basic one being the right to life) and inhumane wrongs
(at least one of the most heinous being the slaughter of an innocent baby in his/her mother’s womb, intended by God to be a natural sanctuary of nurture and protection). These should-have-been women will never exercise any rights because they were murdered before they were born.
Speaking of anger, though, it seems like you were awfully angry at your daughter…and forced your will on her, to her hurt; and, still refusing to repent of this violation of her right to live and still seeking to justify it, you lash out and project your venom onto anyone who dares to take her side in the matter.
As to “living in another time period”…wasn’t your “decision” to murder your daughter an effort to do just that…to turn back the clock to another time period when you weren’t burdened with the challenged with caring for someone who might not ever be able to give back to you in the way you wanted? The grief you say you’ve experienced over this seems to suggest that you found that child-killing is just that, and not some sort of reproductive reset button.
You will never fully process your grief, Jade, until you face and deal with your guilt as well, and stop trying to justify your and Tiller’s collusion in this matter. I understand that you are pregnant again? The experience of thousands of post-abortive mothers attests to the likelihood of your suppressing this reality having a negative impact on your other children…especially the one you said you were carrying awhile back. GIVE IT UP, Jade, for your own sake and theirs. No, I can’t make you do that, and neither can anyone else…but refusing sound counsel just to exercise your “autonomy” is not womanly, it’s childish. You’re only young once…we all are; but you can be immature forever; you are also your dead daughter’s mother not just for a brief time, but for the rest of your life. Deal with it, Jade, before you hurt other innocent people.
BLESSED ARE THOSE WHO MOURN, FOR THEY SHALL BE COMFORTED. Remember it next Christmas; it’s definitely a gift to be thankful for…but it does you no good if you won’t open the box…!
All the best,
As more than one recent poster to this board has expressed an unduly high opinion of Tiller and, conversely, an unduly low opinion of God (!), the following archived posts might also help restore some badly needed spiritual perspective…(Yes, Jade(d)/’just a girl’, this means you! Read it & reap… the benefits of mental restoration…)
Tiller accompanying the injured woman to the hospital is part of his mitigation strategy. By providing care to her once she has been injured, he is “legally” showing that he tried to mitigate any damages she suffered. This lays the legal groundwork to reduce or block award of damages to the victim. Tiller has done this many times before. When I worked for him, we got a minor girl, age 16, who developed a blood clot and was rushed to Wesley, where she stayed for 9 days I think it was. She had lied about her age and Tiller did NOT know she was a minor. Tiller was so scared about that, that he (tightwad tho he is) paid for the hospital bill, and paid to have her mother flown out to be with her–the mother who had known nothing about her daughter’s plans for an abortion–that one really scared him.
Tiller has also refunded abortion fees, believe it or not. In 1988 we had a lady from southwest Kansas who got a late abortion, even though she didn’t want to–it was her doctor’s recommendation due to some problem with the pregnancy. She wrote Tiller a letter about how horrible her experience there was, and it was a very, very anguished letter. Tiller had us all read it. He sent her $3,000.00 or so back to her and crossed his fingers that she wouldn’t sue him.
This is Tiller’s worst nightmare: the Kansas legislature no longer supports him (he told me himself that that was his fear); an older, credible woman who is strong and determined sues him; or that a patient dies in his clinic.
Of course, we all know what would happen to a patient unfortunate enough to die on him. She would probably end up in the crematorium oven. After all, it is a full-sized crematorium just like they use in funeral homes.
Posted by: Luhra Tivis at June 5, 2004 01:18 AM
TILLER COLLUSION WITH WESLEY: Oh yes, it DOES exist. Tiller is on the Board at Wesley. Wesley Hospital grants Tiller privileges at Wesley. Staff in the hospital have covered up for him. If Tiller was sending his botched abortions to a hospital without having admitting privileges there, he would be in big trouble.
And in my opinion, ANY medical professional who supports, encourages, covers for, or associates with Tiller is patently endorsing the cold blooded murder of viable babies in the 8th & 9th months of gestational life.
Posted by: Luhra Tivis at June 5, 2004 01:23 AM
SOLA DEO GLORIA “The Glory of God Alone.” “Whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.” (I Corinthians 10:31).
‘just a girl’
“The enormous amount of medical malpractice [the common euphemism for abortion] that exists and flourishes, almost unchecked, in the city of New York, is a theme for most serious consideration. Thousands of human beings are thus murdered before they have seen the light of this world, and thousands upon thousands more of adults are irremediably robbed in constitution, health and happiness.” (“The Evil of the Age,” The New York Times–late 1800′s, before new management morphed it into the left-wing propaganda machine it is now. )
“The Civilization of today is opposed to babies, and its basest product is the abortionist. He is the human hyena, and the living, quivering flesh of foolish or unfortunate womanhood is the grave from which he tears his prey. He lives upon the crushed and mangled bodies of tender, breathless infants.” — (“Hellish Earl”, The National Police Gazette, late 1800′s)
“A streamlet clear and sunny with ripples all about,
was once the bath for pretty and gentle little trout.
On shore I stood observing with exquisite delight,
the happy little creature — it was a lovely sight.
A fisher with his angle stood on yonder shore,
trying to entangle the fish from the water’s floor.
I thought if clear the water still races all about,
he’d never, never capture my lovely, little trout.
Yet the robber had no patience to while away the time,
he made the brook all muddy, ere I sensed the crime.
His line went inward reeling my little fish so sweet,
then saw I with raging feeling the cheated and the cheat”
–Franz Schubert
“The Trout” is an apparently light hearted look at a little fish and its untimely fate upon a fisherman’s hook, but close to the surface lurks the evil that we have all witnessed when someone malevolently uses and abuses another: to that point the injured party had been entirely innocent and free from all taint of evil but in the abuser’s action is then brought into evil itself…”
Dr. Bernard Nathanson, a former leader of the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL), had this to say about these preposterous statistics: “I confess I knew the figures were totally false, and I suppose the others did too . . . But in the ‘morality’ of the revolution, it was a useful figure”…
Another lie that played a significant role in muddying the waters of real justice, compassion and human rights on January 22, 1973 was Norma McCorvey’s false claim to be pregnant by rape. (Just ask her, she’ll tell you herself)Roe v. Wade, and it’s companion decision, Doe v. Bolton, have made legal life-cheats out of so-called ‘healers’, and cheated millions of women and children…and society at large. (Injustice, cruelty, oppression and deception anywhere jeopardize real justice, compassion, liberty and truth everywhere; no evil is an island…)
No one has accused you of that here, so why the LIE that they have? Assuming that you (along with the some 60% of Tiller’s other quarry claimed here) were, in fact, raped, what makes it just to capitally punish the second victim of the rape rather than the perpetrator? Why compound the violation of rape with fatally violating your child’s life, and further violating your own womanhood? One of the evils of rape is, of course, that it is the imposition of one person’s will on another, to that person’s hurt; it violates the victim’s legitimate right to sexual love. But murder is the ultimate imposition of the perpetrator’s will upon the victim, to the victim’s his/her hurt, and violates his/her right to exercise any other right. So the evil essence is compounded in murder; and, the more innocent the victim of the murder, the more heinous the evil.
Did you salvage any of the child’s DNA to use as evidence against the rapist? Or do you & Tiller not care about halting that rapist’s career, just about gaining money & a measure of independence from killing the rapist’s second victims, the children? Do you propose a ‘search & destroy’ mission to kill off everyone conceived in rape? There aren’t that many, but I doubt that any of them would comply with your pogrom…given a choice.
Your statement that Tiller did for you “what noone else would” is, arguably, a bald-faced lie. While few, even among abortionists, seem to be calloused & greedy enough to kill late-term babies as he, there are others who would do to you and your baby just what he did…provided, of course, you could do for their bank account what you did for Tiller’s.
I sincerely hope that you are able to separate who you are from the violence forced on you, and from that forced on your child and, in a sense, on you in that. But the latter will be more difficult, because you participated in that violation. The first, grievous as it is, does not implicate you as an accomplice (I’m assuming); the second isn’t so simple.
I also hope that neither of these violations ever happen to you, or to any other children you may yet conceive, again. But complaining that you were violated (which makes sense), and then shielding Tiller for an even deeper and more grievous human right’s violation (which doesn’t), isn’t good seed to sow if you yourself don’t want to reap another crop of violence. I don’t think that sort of “lightning” strikes the same “rod” twice…but if it happens to you again, PLEASE, if you don’t want to keep and raise the baby yourself (though some women in that position have found that course to have been the most healing one emotionally), AT LEAST place the child for adoption. You won’t have the guilt, and you’re much less likely (at least 400%; see afterabortion.org on that matter…) to end up strapped to a gurney.
You see, you’re not ‘just a girl’ (though that is an awesome thing to be in itself). You are a woman, with the capacity to heal, to love, and to give life. You have worth (don’t let the rapist’s blindness to that rob you of your own ability to see it); don’t let complicity with a man who cheated you of the love of your child when you were in a crisis situation rob you of more love of life.
And at least give Luhra Tivis credit for just maybe knowing a few things about Tiller that you (& others) don’t…or won’t admit.
pat,
the only thing worse for me than the actual rape itself was finding out i was pregnant as a result of it and the decision i made to have the abortion was excruciating for me.even though he was my rapist’s child, i was not so callous as to think that he was not part of me, because he was.
i tried to get an abortion in new york state, but they told me i was too far along for them to help.they then gave me a paper with dr. tiller’s name and information.dr. tiller was not only interested in my parents money or what we could do for his bank account.he treated me with kindness and empathy and respect.my mother had questioned them at dr. tiller’s facility about getting a dna sample and they told my mom that that was against kansas state law.
i am not posting here to discredit or disrespect anyone-i am just trying to tell you that dr. tiller is not the monster you all make him out to be.he helped me through the worst time of my life and he cared about my well being during and after the procedure, not just physically, but mentally as well.he is a fine, respectable man who understands that the decision to have an abortion does not come easy, no matter what the reason.there was a time when i shed tears for my son every day.
pat,
i also wanted to add that if, as you said, lightning were to strike the same rod twice, and i were to be raped and become pregnant again, i would NOT have another abortion.i believe in what dr. tiller does and i will support him until my dying day, however abortion would not be the right option for me again, unless i was carrying a terminally ill or disfigured child or if it were a life threatening ailment for me.each woman has to make the right decision for herself and with the information i had at that time in my life, i thought i made the right decision.
As you can see from this forum alone that women should be able to decide for themselves whether or not they want an abortion.
Most pro-lifers are so because of religious faith. It is a wonderful thing to have faith but there is not completely proven religion in the world, everyone has different views so please don’t let your views get in the way of somebody’s life. It is admirable that some of you would choose not to have an abortion even if your child was diagnosed with a life-changing problem, but it is also admirable to choose to not put your child into a life of pain and suffering. Consider our society, and if you’re christian consider heaven. Where would you rather your ill, and doomed child be?
To Jade, Just a Girl, Nick and others who believe that the killing of a child can be justified:
As I have stated in previous posts, no one, not a woman or a man should have the right to kill pre-born babies, children born, disabled individuals or the elderly. It should not be legal to kill babies. It has been a gross error that our country and other countries have made, the killing of the unborn.
Being pregnant is the only good thing that could possibly come from the tragdey of rape. A horrible crime against a woman, but a beautiful blessing that awaits one, after such a violent act. Violently killing a child after rape, is far more inhumane than the rape itself. Bringing the child to term and giving the baby a loving home, is the right thing to do.
It was during a routine ultra sound in my fourth month of pregnancy, that the doctor found that my baby daughter, Grace, had problems. He also predicted certain death and her known condition was one of death. He too, recommended termination. For me, abortion was not an option to consider. I did, however, believe God and His word, when he declares in the book of Mark, chapter 11, that if we ask and believe, then we may receive what we ask for. My daughter is alive today, because of God’s merciful power. My daughter, Grace, was born with Downs Syndrome, and has been no less of a joy to have, than any of my other four children. When I look at her, I am reminded of God’s great love, mercy and infinite power. It is important to know that many times than not, that these diagnosis are wrong and uncertain. Grace’s story is not an exception. One year after Grace was born, her father, my husband left the family, and it has not been easy, but thats okay, because God is faithful and He takes care of His own. None of us is excused from hardship, however, God will be with us through it and bring restoration to our shaken lives. Now, it is okay that my husband is gone, because is it not true love that our heart awaits for. That love can be found in God’s pure and unselfish love. That love is also found in the loving and nurturing arms of a mother or father. We can duplicate God’s love through the gentle loving care for our children. And I would like to close by saying that, nothing is a soft as a baby’s skin, sweet as a baby’s breath or more loving than the look that one receives, when that child says I love you, with his/her tender expressions.
May God help you and change your heart.
Maxine
Not every child can breath or say I love you.
Do you really beleive it is God’s gift for a child?
Who would want that fate for someone?
IN REPLY TO:::::
Jade,
Before you make any unfounded claims about whether a human fetus is “life”, I suggest you get a basic biology textbook and start reading. Since you had your child murdered at 8 months, I understand that you need to put up some kind of defense for yourself so your conscience doesn’t overwhelm you.
Pro-lifers don’t hate you or Dr. Tiller. We hate what he does because it is a clear violation of the sanctity of human life.
May God convict you so you can turn to him before it is too late for you.
====================
As to your statement: claims about whether a human fetus is “life”, I suggest you get a basic biology textbook and start reading.
I’m a biology major, I’ve read countless biology books, this is not a claim to why abortion should be banned (which it shouldn’t) – it’s a woman’s right by constitution.
And as to your other statement: hate what he does because it is a clear violation of the sanctity of human life.
Aren’t christians not to “hate” at all. Isn’t what you’re doing out of this “hate”…
to (voice of OLD) Nick, & others concerned,
Considering our society, it is highly unlikely (as you would see from all the foregoing posts, if you read them carefully) that any human life totally devoid of pain and suffering is possible; do you propose murdering everyone as a preemptive measure? These doom and gloom scenarios are always trotted out as justifications for murdering the most weak and innocent (and, conversely, those with the most potential, the hope of our future…) of the society of which you purport to be so “considerate”.
If you were really concerned about sparing people (you know, those who actually comprise society) undue pain and suffering, you would not be so supportive of non-medical procedures (induced abortion does not cure, prevent, or treat any known disease; pregnancy is not an std, as the population control freaks so cynically call it, but a normal function of healthy reproductive system)which cold-bloodedly, premeditatedly, torture innocent babies to death. Preborn babies, for the record, respond to touch (read, FEEL PAIN)sometime around the 8-10th week of gestation, and very few surgical abortions take place earlier than that.
Then, there is the intense physical, mental, and/or emotional suffering that virtually all post-abortive mothers suffer at some time or other, the suffering of their families when they do not survive their “safe & legal” abortions.
Also, abuse of post-natal children has risen some 800% since Roe/Doe, due in part to the erosion of the taboo against harming the weak and defenseless that was part and parcel of those infamous decisions.
Some 50 million plus children have thus been legally slaughtered by surgical abortion alone (this does not include those lives snuffed out by RU486 and other abortifacient birth control substances & devices)since 1973. That equals the total population of about 18 of the United States (depending, of course, on which states, since population varies from state to state). Do not try to convince me or any other thinking person that among that many people, a great deal of suffering is alleviated by health care professionals (real ones, not murderers posing as them), good policemen (as opposed to the brownshirts who bully, harm, and violate the constitutional rights of, those who are at least trying to protect and serve the innocent, whether it is currently deemed politically correct to do so or not), firemen, (so many young boys have aspired to those professions since 9-11; and, with the growing threat of Islamic terrorism, how many more might have pursued those careers, if they had not been butchered by domestic terrorists like Tiller & ilk…???) Take your phony “consideration” to some planet where there is no human life for you to afflict & destroy.
Your remark that “a woman should be able to decide for herself if she wants an abortion” is fraught with other difficulties as well. You should have been able to discern from the above posts that women rarely “decide for themselves” that they “want” an abortion;, those who abort are often strongly influenced/coerced into that “decision” by hostile circumstances, social engineers with m.d.’s & their accomplices, irresponsible men who exploit and then abandon their pregnant partners & the progeny they carry (Not surprisingly, the Playboy empire has long been a huge supporter of Planned Parenthood…and, as you might have deduced from at least one of the posts above, legalized abortion on demand is a rapist’s best friend, systematically destroying the star witnesses against statutory, and other, rapists…), angry parents, and others.
While there are a few cases of women who schizophrenically and self-centeredly will get pregnant on purpose to prove their womanhood and then kill the child to assert their autonomy, the vast majority who want to get pregnant want to have their children; most who get abortions do not want to be pregnant. Does that not suggest to you any dynamics at work besides “free choice”? Besides that, “being free to choose for herself” smacks of abandonment, one of the cruelest emotional abuses that can be inflicted upon a pregnant woman, hardly an expression of “concern”, “respect”, or any other positive sentiment.
No, I don’t suppose one can stop a woman who really might “want” an abortion from deciding to “want” one; but a law that prevents her from imposing her “desire” fatally upon innocent children, esp. her own, is in the best interests of everyone concerned, for obvious reasons already stated here and in previous posts.
While, ironically but arguably, consistently applied secularist views (for which much less real scientific evidence exists, since you mention it)than for the Christian faith) have interfered with far more lives than consistently applied Christianity, the bottom line is that no society is improved by permitting the strong to prey upon the weak with impunity. Your own views, for instance, have interfered with the lives of over 50 million innocent children, thousands of their mothers…and that’s just in the U.S. In China, where a woman who becomes pregnant after bearing one child is subjected to both FORCED abortion and FORCED sterilization, the suicide rate among women is the highest in the world. China also boasts the dubious distinction of being the only country in the world where the suicide rate is higher among women than among men. You see, while women generally tend to attempt suicide more frequently than do men, men tend to actually “pull it off” much more frequently than women. That is not the case in China, though; and anyone who knows much about suicide knows that, like induced abortion, it’s an act of desperation– to escape intense suffering and pain. Neither are good options; crises, however excruciating they can feel at the time, are temporary; but death, however singular a solution it can seem at the time, is permanent; and it is the one condition for which there are no remedies at all…
I happen to agree with many people who believe that they have souls, and that those souls are immediately received by God in heaven upon their deaths (though your own faith in your own assertion to that effect seems much shakier than my own). However, theirs aren’t the only souls at stake here: According to Revelation 21: 8 (“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” ) and numerous other passages, there is cause for grave concern for the souls of the mothers and others who collaborate to kill the innocent. Most of us want not only want to go to heaven ourselves, we want everyone involved in the child-killing industry there as well, but repentance is a clear prerequisite. Hope to see you there, too.
Until you can disprove the Christian faith (a proven waste of time), I strongly suggest that you consider it. It’s a much more constructive thought train than the one you’re on.
just thinking,
to Jade/Jean,
Induced abortion is NOT a woman’s right by the U.S. Constitution. If you will actually read that document, you will find no license to kill unborn children, or any other violation of the unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness upheld in the Declaration of Independence.
You will find that the purpose of the U.S. Constitution is “to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity” (Obviously, “our posterity” has no liberty if dead…) which would clearly preclude killing the posterity off in utero (or ex, except as stipulated in Amendment V, which reads, in part, “No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law…”. Due process of law typically means a charge of a capital offense (if just being conceived, or being ill, or unwanted by someone at sometime or other qualified as capital offenses, we’d all be “guilty”) fair trial by a jury of one’s peers, presided over by a judge committed to faithfully applying the principles of the Constitution, not distorting it to serve his/her own agenda, like Blackmun & co. did in 1973, and others have done, to America’s hurt, before and since).
Some people have claimed this on the basis of a “constitutional right to privacy”; in fact, the word privacy, or an unqualified right thereto, is nowhere mentioned in the constitution. There are laws regulating undue, unjust search and seizure of one’s home, person, possessions; but these were never intended to give license to murder the innocent just because (s)he happens to be, for a period of time, in one’s home, person & possessions…
For further information on this, see all.org and look up “Roe v. Wade”…in addition to reading the U.S. Constitution; that is also available online.
Jade(?)…(& whomever else it may concern!),
I think you would do well to read the Word of the Creator at least as avidly as you do books by, as well as on, His creation…
Hatred, like love, is an emotion common to sentient humanity and is only as worthy or unworthy as it’s strength, purity, and object.
(See Luke 16:3)
Hatred of one’s neighbor is forbidden to humanity by our Maker in His word; hatred of sin is endorsed, out of legitimate concern for the humanity it destroys.
(See Psalm 36:2-4, 45:7, 97:10; Proverbs 8:13, 13:5, 28:13, Isaiah 61:8, Matthew 5, I John 3, etc.)
ARX: The U.S. Constitution does not concern me. Im a Canadian Citizen. And Proud of it!… As far as your recomendations of all youe “jesus books” No thank you, we all have our own beleifs, dont try to force yours upon me.
Jade(d),
The biblical texts were posted in reference to an enquiry re: Christianity and hatred. Your name was attached to that post, so the response got addressed to you even though I suspected that you did not really give a rip about Christianity or hatred, you just thought you could “weigh one in” against the Christians, sort of “hoist Christianity by its own petard”, so to speak. Now you’re just mad because your cheap shot was shown to be just that.
Your scorn for both the Bible (and the U.S. Constitution, based on biblical principles) will not exempt you, or anyone else, from answering to the God of the scriptures for your life, including the murder of your child and your hateful, disingenuous, snitty posts to those of us who don’t share, but venture to challenge, your views…even though you don’t even know us, you just lump us all together as one entity(bigotry has a way of of de-individualizing people). Grow up and get over yourself before coming back here and (gasp!) forcing your idiology where you know good and well there is a clear conflict of interests. HMMMMMMMMM?!
because some people care for truth, justice, and freedom even though you don’t…
To Jade:
Why do you post on this web site?
Maxine
P.S. If you were not referring to the U.S. Constitution, you did not specify as much, and the claim that child murder is a right according to the U.S. Constitution is a favorite propaganda lie of proaborts in the U.S. But if you honestly think that moving to Canada (or anywhere else)will get you out of God’s jurisdiction, you are in for a huge disappointment…People who cut off their noses to spite their faces(or kill their babies to spite people they dislike, etc.)are generally disappointed.
Face it or not, Jesus knows you much better than you know Him, and loves you yet…check it out. You’ll find Him much more essential to your life than even your nose is to your face; much better that you deal with Him now than that He deal with you after it’s too late.
to “just a girl”…
I am glad to hear that you will be kinder to both yourself and your baby if you find yourself in the raped & pregnant again, which, of course, we all sincerely hope that you don’t.
But I seriously doubt that the decision to murder a living, healthy (or, worse, an ailing one)baby is as heart-wrenching for Tiller as it can be for a mother. It should be, if anything, even more repugnant to a professional physician to take an innocent human life; those who do either are, at heart, cold-blooded murderers or such poor “doctors” that they can’t do anything else with their degrees, however charming they will naturally be about it (the better to win you over, my dear…). That is, I think, clearly reflected in Luhra Tivis’ observations, which I think you’ve too much of a vested interest, emotionally, to see clearly…which I hope you deal fully with soon. Sounds like progress is coming; don’t quit now. We especially hope that you are able to have children at a later time and certainly under more volitional circumstances; (though children conceived by rape are not inferior to other children, and should not be killed for a crime someone else committed, conceiving children in committed, married love is better for everyone involved…the way God originally intended it) especially since the last one was forced on you.
Many post-abortive women cannot have more children due to damages to their reproductive organs in the abortion; I do hope that you’re not one of them.
All the best,
pat,
as i have said before, the procedure that dr. tiller performed for me left me with no physical problems.i am able to have children at whatever point in my life i choose to.dr. tiller may not be exactly in the mother’s shoes, but he is very kind, empathetic, and he doe sknow how hard it is to be a woman and make that decision.he is not just interested in money or making a fast buck, he showed me the utmost coutesy and respect when i was there.his philosophy is that the woman is his patient and before i had the procedure done, i had counseling as well as during and after the procedure.
pat, i also wanted to let you know that i did check out that website you alluded to-afterabortion.com.i will admit that there were a lot of things on there that i did not know, however i think that greiving after an abortion is normal.it’s a very traumatic experience for any woman who goes through it.as i have said, i was not so cold and callous to think that he was not part of me.i grieve for my son everyday and an abortion was not a quick fix, it is with me every day.dr. tiller really helped me through a very dark time in my life.and please don’t think i am saying that i condone women who have consentually conceived a healthy child having abortions in their 27th week like i did because i don’t.
*laugh* maxine I post here because I want people to know th real truth about Dr Tiller. Hes a great man.
just a girl,
I’m sorry if I somehow gave you, or anyone, the impression that post-abortive grief is somehow abnormal; I am aware that it is an intensely grievous trauma for any woman to be subjected to, and, although it’s painful, sometimes overwhelmingly so, it’s healthier in the long run to face it than to bury it, and it sounds as though you are not repressing yours, as many women do; it tends to go hand in hand with self-justification as opposed to repentance. Be encouraged: BLESSED ARE THOSE WHO MOURN, FOR THEY SHALL BE COMFORTED. (This refers mainly to mourning over one’s sin, but God is by no means calloused to our losses; Jesus, referenced as “a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief” — please see Isaiah 53– wept at the tomb of Lazarus, even though He knew that in a very short time, Lazarus would be alive again — see also John 11:1-44)
I’m glad you checked out afterabortion.org; it’s a very well-researched source of information regarding the physical, emotional, spiritual, and social dangers of induced abortion.
Other sites you may find helpful in your grief journey are:
http://www.helpafterabortion.com
http://www.rachelsvineyard.org
http://www.ramahinternational.org
http://www.poorchoice.org (even though it seemed to you the best option at the time…)
I’m also happy to hear that you haven’t suffered serious reproductive damage; the sooner you fully process this grief, the freer you will be to mother any children you have in the future.
You don’t say whether or not the baby Tiller killed was your first pregnancy; if so, even though the baby was in the last trimester (or so I gather), I would recommend that you be very conscientious about breast exams. There are now about 30 studies linking induced abortion to breast cancer; and, while many of them limit this to aborted first pregnancies in the first 4-5 months of gestation, not all of them do. According to another recent testimony, at least a third of the women under thirty who were diagnosed with breast cancer by one physician had no family history of breast cancer; but they had all had induced abortions.
I still think you flatter Tiller far beyond his just deserts, for reasons already posted on this thread and others; so while I think that your loyalty to him and what he does is excessive, to put it mildly (!), I don’t recommend a life-long grudge or vendetta against the man. (Even those engaged in what seems life a lifelong battle against his operation(s), and those of us who support them in it, don’t feel that way.)
I don’t know anyone who has faced post-abortive grief who has claimed to have “gotten over it”, entirely; but facing it is much more freeing, in the long run, than repressing that weight so deep that you can’t get to it to get rid of it legitimately; and I am certain that that is what God wants for you, too.
You might also bear in mind, in future pregnancies, that fetal deformity/anomaly does not reduce the physical dangers of induced abortion; it would still be, statistically, about 400% safer for you to have the baby and then kill him/her (which we do not recommend, especially since all of us have both some disabilities and abiities compared with others!) than to have another abortion.
All the best,
pat,
i was at the beginning of my third trimester, i was 27 weeks-or about 7 months-along and it was my first and only pregnancy.i am not flattering dr. tiller, i am simply telling my story and giving my opinion on the man that so many peoplebash.i cannot say enough about how kind and supportive he & his staff were to me before, during, and after my abortion.when i was there-and maybe jade can attest to this depending on whether or not the clinic had changed since i was there-there were literally dozens of letters on his wall from women he has helped.
Pat and Just a girl….
Just here to verify that the entire clinic is plastered with letters of thanks from past patients.Hundreds and he also has binders full of them, you can read while waiting. Hes Great!
just a girl,
One would be interested to read the comments of the thousands he has helped kill (both pre and post-natally)–if they could speak. I daresay that they would far outweigh the dozens who were, like you, comparatively lucky. I’m guessing that Pat had them in mind as well as you…
just thinking…
Jade,
I didn’t ask you. Your shallow, vicious, sycophantic opinions I am already well aware of, like anyone else who regularly reads and posts on this board. My remarks were addressed to J.A.G., not you, (unless you are the same person; I know that m.p.d. usually is a way of coping with severe traumas like induced abortion) because I sensed a very different spirit from yours in her posts. Wake up & smell the Joe Mugg’s or butt out.
(And before you get all defensive, I regularly bring my own kids up just as short, if not more so, as I deem appropriate…and I’ve also a file of letters expressing their appreciation, now that most of them are grown with kids of their own.)
As I believe I have mentioned to you before,
Not everyone who smiles in your face is your friend.
We’re still praying for you.
just thinking,
post natally would mean that he has killed children after they were already born-that is a lie, he has never done that.in fact, when you are signing the consent form, there is a block stating that in the event of a live birth were to occur, the child would be transported to a medical facility to receive treatment.he told me while i was signing the form that they have never had a live birth at the clinic.before the procedure is even started, he injects a salt solution into the fetal heart to stop it.he has never killed a post natal child.
just a girl,
To clear up any confusion, any human being who has been born is post-natal, not just those who have not yet reached puberty.
Yes, he has killed several mothers. One may argue that he did not intend to kill them, only their children; but surely he is fully aware of the dangers to them, and equally aware killing their children does not treat, cure, or prevent any disease of theirs.
This is much like saying that someone who knows the dangers of operating a vehicle while intoxicated, chooses to do so anyway, and kills someone, that (s)he did not kill them because the intent was only to drive from point a. to point b…the driver is still responsible for that person’s death. Clear enough now?!
slan,
jt
several mothers???i don’t think so.when i had my abortion in 1995, he had yet to kill a woman.and with abortion being such a hot topic, why weren’t any of these deaths reported in any major news outlet?
j.a.g.,
While I don’t think honest debate, or even open rebuke where provoked, necessarily constitutes “bashing”, you do not seem equally concerned about jade’s bashing others, as she has done repeatedly, despite the plain statement that this website is not a place to attack ORW or its supporters… ?
Don’t count on the local mainstream media to report abortion deaths. I know of AT LEAST one documented abortion-related death which was brought to the media’s attention in the city in which it occurred (and elsewhere); it was not mentioned until the abortionist’s license was suspended, months later, and then it was mentioned… in a small, well-hidden column in a thick newspaper. Not the coverage you would expect of a known threat to women’s safety on the part of anyone who cared for same: but then, these reports do not comprise the sort of P.R. that Tiller & ilk are likely to wallpaper their offices with…or allow to “leak” anywhere else, if they can help it.
Go back and read Tivis’ comments again before you make such haste to judge those of us who don’t worship the ground Tiller, Carhart, et al,walk on (or slogs through, as blood-soaked as it is…)
Then, when you’ve done that, please go and read, in full, the Blackmun Wall at lifedynamics.com.
A topic that is nowhere near obsolescence at National Abortion Federation (of which Tiller is a member in very good standing) is maternal deaths. One abortionist has been literally booed off that stage more than once for urging his killeagues to practice “safe medicine” and avoid maternal deaths. (Hint: that abortionist’s name is not George Tiller) Seems that this crowd would much rather discuss how to cover maternal deaths than how to avoid them…just a word to the wise, for what it’s worth…
still thinking,
Tiller has been quoted as saying that he transports women to the hospital only if they receive life-threatening injuries during abortions at his outpatient clinic…several of which have occurred just in the last 6 months, with one confirmed death in just that time.
How many years has Tiller been doing this ? How many dead women does it take ?
Do keep us posted on the woman on the gurney, even if you have to sue to get the facts. (Assuming, for no particular reason, that they haven’t been ‘revised’ to cover a certain backside…gotta keep that smiley face mask on the Grim Reaper, no matter what, don’t you, Tiller?)
As to the point that these abortion injury incidents have yet to be reported in the media, you are incorrect. A local news station covered the abortion death briefly. Other Internet news sources have reported the abortion injuries. However, why not lead story on the nightly news? Fear and media bias. They simply fear the backlash of reporting on someone as wealthy and powerful as Tiller. They fear negative reporting on abortion because that runs counter to their ideological bias. Or they are in bed with him, metaphorically speaking, and will not report the truth. It’s not something that is unique to Wichita, believe me. It happens all over. The media yawns and turns the other way while the butchers get away with murder.
nick
note in the following excerpt from your rambling, incoherent post how many times you use the word “LIFE”. yet you refuse to acknowledge that LIFE is present in a woman’s womb, as it was in your mother’s womb before you were born.
—
” please don’t let your views get in the way of somebody’s LIFE. It is admirable that some of you would choose not to have an abortion even if your child was diagnosed with a LIFE-changing problem, but it is also admirable to choose to not put your child into a LIFE of pain and suffering…”.
—-
a child, nick, is not PUT into a LIFE of pain and suffering. an unborn child is already alive and growing, just as a newborn is alive and growing, just as a two year old is alive and growing. but beyond that, we are ALL born into a life of pain and suffering, because of sin. but do you not value your life, in spite of the pain and suffering? and if you value your life, nick, why do you not respect human life at all stages of development?
jean
what a convoluted bunch of gibberish.
your post is so absurd is would be laughable if not for the seriousness of the subject matter.
you say abortion is a right “by constitution”.
baloney. there is no constitutional right to abortion, period. it’s not there. the word privacy is not even mentioned in the constitution.
those who drafted roe did so out of whole cloth and had no factual, constitutional, or scientific basis for the decision. it’s one great big lie.
as far as your other ridiculous assertion that Christians are not to hate sin, please. i suggest you go get a Bible and actually open it, for the first time in your life. hating sin is not the same as hating a person. but like most pagans, you claim to know what Christians are supposed to do and think, when you’ve never even read the Book.
and by the way, why SHOULDN’T human life be protected at all stages of development, ms. biology-know-it-all? why should we protect life at six months after birth but not three months before? hummmmm….?
jade
you post on this site not only because you worship george tiller like some sort of god, but also because your conscience, as JADED as it is, still bothers you. because you know you made a poor choice, when you could’ve just let the child be born naturally. but you chose to have it killed, and you hired tiller to do the deed. and you know it was wrong. and so you come on here to try and justify your poor decision. and the more you do so, the more callous you appear.
i have a friend whose child died a few days after birth. but she created a loving website in the child’s honor, with pictures and memories of its short life. and she valued those few days in the way that only a loving mother can. and i respect her greatly for that.
when i contrast how she dealt with her situation with how you did, all i can do is just feel an immense pity for you, that you actually feel that what you did was right.
what my friend did was truly noble, and truly caring. she gave that child the best few days she could because she loved her child. you had your child’s life ended before its time, and now you spend large amounts of time coming on this site singing the praises of the man you hired to do it. you even *laugh* when people ask you reasonable questions.
my friend would never laugh about any aspect of her child’s short life. she has too much respect for humanity, even for a life that lasted only a short time.
To Jade:
I would be interested in knowing your definition of GREAT!
ONE WHO KILLS CHILDREN IS NEITHER GREAT OR RESPECTED IN ANY WAY! TILLER KILLS BABIES FOR A LIVING, THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM GREAT, IT MAKES HIM A DISGUSTING KILLER, AND A GREEDY MAN.
It grieves me that you found yourself in a situation that you felt that the only solution was to have an abortion, but because it is what you did and it is what Tiller does, can not and never will be justified and you will never convince those of us who believe that life is sacred, otherwise or that Tiller is great. He is truly Tiller the Terrible. You will continue to be in my prayers.
Maxine
The remarks about Tiller wallpapering his office with “fan mail” were most interesting…how many doctor’s offices (real ones, I mean), do you find so festooned? It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that virtually every one of those letters was written (and, we hope, posted…)to salve what is, by a huge discourtesy, commonly referred to as a “bad conscience” — which really means a conscience doing it’s job so well that one has to muzzle it, lest it “wake up the whole house”, so to speak…
just thinking (!)
God help us when it is OK to butcher an innocent little boy or girl in cold blood as long as one does it in a “courteous and professional” manner.
jag,
your post does nothing to delegitimize the basic concern of gk’s, or to bring you any nearer the healing you need. Give it up.
South Dakota’s Novel Concept
South Dakota has decided that abortion doctors should have to make full-disclosures to their patients. A doctor telling a patient the potential problems a procedure (killing a baby) could have, what a novel concept. Governor Rounds of South Dakota sign…
I do agree where he does need to stop what he is doing.He has had so many bad things happen at his clinic.I dont see him as a good doctor.But what i dont understand is why are we placing the other worker’s at his clinic why would u put there home addresses on this website.Yes they do work at a clinic we are not proud of but somebody does the work and it happens to be these people but to give out where they live so other people can go to there homes and do more bad then good and some of them have children and a family.that is not right,people make the choice to have an abortion.Not everyone is forced.So yes hate on Tiller cause of the harm he does to babies and people or we should say mother’s but dont give out home information on worker’s in the clinic.Cause if that’s the case follow the mother’s who go there just because they dont want a baby,or there not ready.Give there personal information out also.People let’s make people understand about the bad,but dont u become one of the bad people and hurt other’s in another way!
Jade you had a lot of nerve calling Dr Tiller the KILLER a great man. Seems to me that he helped turn you over to a reprobate mind! He killed your baby screwed up your body and finished you off with a warped mind! WHAT A GUY!!!!!!!