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Resources from Operation Rescue West

January 01, 2004

Their Blood Cries Out
Troy Newman’s important book explores the doctrine of bloodguilt and outlines the biblical teaching regarding how a community and nation can be freed from the curse brought by the shedding of innocent blood. This new and completely revised edition is equally suitable for pastor or layperson. 227 pages $10 + $3 S&H
The Tiller Report
Fresh off the Press! A Shocking Exposé on America’s Most Infamous Late-term Abortionist. ORW put their crack investigative team to work probing into the history of late-term abortionist, George R. Tiller of Wichita, Kansas. You will be horrified to learn what they have uncovered. Everything you read has been heavily researched and documented. 50 pages $10 + $3 S&H
Am I Now Your Enemy for Telling You the Truth?
This short book answers frequently asked questions concerning the biblical doctine of bloodguilt and why the church must become actively involved in stopping abortion. 60 pages $5 + $2 S&H
Bioethics in an Age of Emerging Biotechnology
Explains in simple terms the new technologies dominating today’s headlines then deals with the ethics from a Biblical perspective. 41 pages $5 + $2 S&H
The Use of Graphic Photos in the Public Forum
This apologetic essay gives a Biblical defense for the public use of graphic pictures of aborted babies. 13 pages $3 + $1 S&H
Sidewalk Counseling Manual
This “How-To” manual gives training and practical tips for Christians who reach out to women at the doors of the abortion mills. Workbook sized. 32 pages $10 + $3 S&H
 
Consider All the Consequences
Abortion’s risks and consequences are clearly presented in this tri-fold brochure designed for use by sidewalk counselors. Available in English and Spanish Tri-fold brochure. Orders of under 10 are free. Please call for bulk pricing.

For bulk order rates and ministry discounts, please click here.

Posted: January 1, 2004 10:12 AM
Comments

I'm reading "Their Blood Cries Out" and it's brought me to tears and pretty much put me in a state of mourning - and I'm only 6 chapters deep. It's been an excellent book so far and I've learned things I didn't know - and I considered myself a well informed pro-life person. This is something that every Christian should read - even if they aren't active in the prolife movement. I'll be buying extra copies for my family and church soon. Thanks Troy and Cheryl!

Posted by: Ron at August 9, 2004 11:36 AM

When I read the Rolling Stone article about operation Rescue's efforts against the employees of Dr. George Tiller I got the impression that these people are acting like obssesed stalkers. Imagine some nobody who is just trying to pay his or her bills and get by in life. Then a group of people with some agenda begins following them all day and shouts at them over loudspeakers. Remember these are the salaried employees and not a wealthy physician who lives in some fancy community. At one of these sieges they created such a commotion that they caused car accidents. I don't know about you but that's not my idea of upholding Christian values. Oh yeah, they prayed for the people who were in the accidents. How about paying for the damage after the prayer circle breaks up?

Posted by: steve at August 21, 2004 10:32 AM

Regarding the Rolling Stone article about Operation Rescue's recent initiatives in pro life activities. I came across both the article and this defintion contemperaneously. When will the christian community be represented by resolve and love?

ter·ror·ism n.

"The ....use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."

That's unfortunate.

Posted by: David at August 27, 2004 06:19 AM

I recently read an article in Rolling Stone about operation rescue that made me sick. Troy Newman should not be allowed to roam the streets freely if all he's going to do is stalk people trying to make a living. These people aren't rich. If they were they'd be living like Tiller, safe and away from psychos. How anyone can go along with this man who makes me feel a deep loathing sickens me. Why would you do this to innocent people. Why ruin lives because you disagree with a woman's RIGHT to choose what goes on within herself. Seriously, rethink your approach you insane radical.

Posted by: anonymus at August 30, 2004 01:14 AM

anon says: "Why would you do this to innocent people. Why ruin lives because you disagree with a woman's RIGHT to choose what goes on within herself."

does the term schizophrenia mean anything to you, anon? because your comments are amazingly bass ackwards, so to speak. you ask why would someone do "this to innocent people" - well, prolifers have been asking this of all abortionists and their employees for 31 + years..... as prolifers, we wonder how anyone can stick a fork in the back of a baby's skull and suck its brains out - we wonder how a so-called nurse can reassemble body parts on a table after a d & c abortion (ok, here's an arm, here's a leg....yes, looks like we got it all...), we wonder how abortion mill employees can take the remains of aborted babies and flush them down the sewer, using heavy commercial garbage disposals, or throw their remains in some hefty bag and then a dumpster.......

so yes, anon, we who are prolife ask ourselves, how can anyone do that to "innocent people".....and don't try to tell me that the unborn is not a member of the human family....

then you claim that the so-called right to choose is inviolate, even though roe v wade has no constitutional or scientific basis. what you are saying is that a baby can be killed if: it is in a certain location, is at a certain level of development, or is of a certain age.

somehow i would guess that you are not fighting for the right a woman to determine things about her body, if that something would include drugs or prostitution. in addition, the unborn baby has a completely different, seperate body that is the subject of the abortionist's knife.

again, i repeat - the proabortion viewpoint is rife with schizophrenic inconsistencies, not to mention a lack of moral discernment.

Posted by: jerry at September 5, 2004 09:40 PM

steve and david

i don't consider what ORW is doing to be harassment and certainly not terrorism....

if the people working for abortionists are "just trying to get by in life", maybe they should consider another line of work....they are making money in shedding the blood of innocent children....now, if they were just working at mcdonalds or something, would they be bothered by this type of exposure? no. they are bothered by it because what they do is obscene. if you doubt that abortion takes a terrific toll on those who participate in it, go to:

http://www.touchstonemag.com/docs/issues/16.7docs/16-7pg22.html

in my view, are those working behind the closed doors of the abortion mills are the violent ones - they kill babies for a living, for God's sakes. i see no problem with exposing them. what they are doing is shameful, and so for them to be ashamed is a natural thing...what isn't natural is for someone to proudly do what they do.

Posted by: jerry at September 5, 2004 09:49 PM

This message is for all of my brothers and sisters in Christ working for and with Operation Rescue. Greetings and peace to you in the name of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ! It thrills me to see people who are willing to speak out for what we know in our hearts to be right. At the same time, I am troubled. I have recently read several articles pertaining to the actions of Operation Rescue. These ultimately lead me to read the article in the Rolling Stone. And I must say that I am feeling as though you are manipulating your fellow man through forced submission to our God. We are taught that when one man repents, the angels in heaven rejoice. Sadly, I see no one repenting. I see people turning a deaf ear to the message that we have been charged to preach. 1 Cor. 5:12 says, "What buisness of it is mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. Expel the wicked man from among you!" Brothers and Sisters we are being called only to judge those inside of God's church. God will eventually deal with the wicked in his own time. In Matt. 13:24-30, Christ gives us the parable of the weeds. The seed sower(Jesus) plants his seed. But during the night an enemy(Satan), comes and sows weeds among the wheat(believers in Christ). When the wheat sprouted, so did the weeds(the wicked). When the servants asked the Master if the weeds needed to be pulled up He replies, "No, because while you are pulling up the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First, collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn" (Matt. 13:29-30). Christ is telling us that GOD will ultimately punish sin BUT He has still allowed it to exist along side his children. I'm going to make a statement so follow me on this one. God no longer punishes the sins of the wicked. Because the sins of the wicked as well as our on were nailed to the cross along with Jesus so that through his blood ALL can be redeemed. Brothers and sisters, we have no need to fight this battle for the battle has already been won! We are called only to be ever faithful to the Lord and preach his message as was charged to us in the Great Commission. And if you claim this fight as an effort to show other believers their error, there are better ways. First, try reasoning. If that does not work, Paul tells us to, "...hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord" (1Cor. 5:5). My biggest is fear is that for every "victory" that you achieve, and every clinic you sucessfully shut down, its at least one more person that will never turn to God. As believers we need to focus more on preaching the gospel and being good examples and less on harassing people that work at abortion clinics, and protesting outside there homes. We need to focus less on digging though these people's garbage. We need to focus less on showing pictures of aborted fetuses to young children. Friends, I ask you: Are you doing the work of God? Can his glory be seen in your deeds? Is this battle against abortion winning people for the Lord? How has this battle affected your personal relationship with Christ? Why are you fighting a battle that has already been won when there are tasks of far greater importance that we have been commanded to undertake? Make no mistake, I believe that abortion is sinful and wrong. But we have not been charged to clean up the sins of the world. Just as Jesus taught, we have been charged to persevere through the evil of this world until the time of harvest, when Christ will seperate the wheat from the weeds(the righteous from the wicked). For whatever reason, God has allowed these evils to exist along side his children. It is not our job or place to purge the world of it. Only to stay vigilant. Write your congressman, preach it on the street corners and from the pulpits. And if these attempts are not sucessful, do not be discouraged. But remember that God has greater purpose in all things and His ways are not our own. Our wisdom is foolishness in the sight of God. But whatever you do, do not heckle, annoy, or harass the very people that we have been commanded to minister to. I am very certain that we can all think of better methods of evangelism. And do remember: we were not charged to bring about an end to abortion and the other sins of this world, but simply to preach the loving mercy and forgiveness of God through the blood of Christ. That is our message. Pray that God may guide you, brothers and sisters, and rejoice that the battle has indeed already been one! Thank you, Lord Jesus!

Yours in Christ,
Jason


Posted by: Jason at September 30, 2004 09:39 PM

jason

i must say that i disagree with you on several points. first of all, you read articles that are written by proabortion publications, and you form opinions based on the biased reporting. that seems to lack discernment, in my view.

next, you say you see 'no one repenting'. well, that is a bit silly, is it not? are you able to be there and physically witness someone repenting? to imply that no one is repenting is simply false. numerous people have indeed, repented, and some women have been persuaded not to go through with their abortions - do you not think those women thank Almighty God for what may at the time have seemed like harsh confrontation when they look at the faces of their precious children? of course they do.

thirdly, if people decide to turn a deaf ear to the gospel, then they have chosen to reject Christ, and that is not our domain. God tells us that He will not lose a single one of us. God can work through protesters, pictures, and rebuke just as He can work through tracts or other methods of reaching people.

fourth, you say that we should 'preach it from the street corners and from the pulpits'. well, the facts are that most churches are silent on this issue, and never mention it at all. in fact, some are proabortion. you quote the verse about judging the brother within the church, but sadly, that is not being followed. tiller is a member in 'good standing' at the lutheran church in wichita, and he leaves there on sunday without being confronted at all, and goes back to killing late term babies on monday. so it's not being preached from the pulpits. perhaps if it were, there would be little need for groups such as ORW. many so-called believers don't even vote or care who our leaders are. this is sinful and leads to exactly the kind of situation we have right now in this country. as an example of what i am saying, look at the homosexual movement. i disagree with their agenda completely, but with 3-5% of the population, they are able to accomplish much of what they set out to do. imagine if Christians, who comprise anywhere from 60-80% of the population, rose up out of their pews and began to affect the culture as salt and light the way we are called to do, instead of sitting around singing hymns and lamenting the decline of the culture. most believers spend far more time and energy on entertainment and selfish pursuits (just like the world except on sunday) than they do trying to reach the lost or make a difference on life or death matters like this one.

you say there are far more important things to do than expose the evil that is abortion....i say there is NO more important issue than one which takes the lives of 4000 children every day, much of it subsidized by our tax money, and promoted and encouraged by various government institutions.

your problem, jason, is that you haven't studied history. when the abolishionist movement was flourishing in the 19th century, i'm sure there were people just like you who said "let's not get involved - God will judge the sin of slavery in His own time - let's just preach the gospel...". and i'm sure in the 30s and 40s, in nazi germany, there were people just like you who said "let's not get involved - God will judge those people who are killing the jews - let's just preach the gospel...". because of attitudes like yours, the church has largely become ineffective within the culture, and historically, that is disastrous. eventually, evil must be confronted, and since the victory has been won, as you noted, we should be the ones coming against the gates of hell, instead of simply waiting for the rapture, comfortably numb to all that goes on around us.

furthermore, how can you say that for every 'victory' achieved, that one more person will never turn to God? what kind of nonsense is that? how do you know whether someone will turn to God, and what will lead them to do so? you don't.

then you ask "is this battle against abortion winning people for the Lord?". well, stop and think a minute. each one of those unborn children killed is a PERSON. who will speak up for them, if not Christians? i agree that to
'heckle, annoy, or harass' is not very Christ-like. but are you sure that is what is happening? or is that just what you have read in proabortion magazines and websites?

i urge you to become more informed about this issue.

Posted by: jerry at October 2, 2004 08:37 AM

jason

you might start by going to this link and reading a three part column by doug giles, not on this issue, but on the state of today's church....

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/douggiles/dg20040717.shtml

Posted by: jerry at October 2, 2004 08:40 AM

i'm a woman who was raped and I had to make a terrible decision. But it was very early on. I wish Jesus had still been here so that he could physically wrap me in his arms to walk past all of those who called me the most horrible of names. Don't any of you realize how complicated life can get?

Jesus was with me, too. i. I just knew it-I felt him there with me. And he will be there to love me through all of it. The only human one who showed any subtle understanding of the complexities of my situation was my doctor--not the name callers I had to be protected from. my doctor saved my life that day. God bless him.

A.

Posted by: me at October 7, 2004 12:19 AM

i'm a woman who was raped and I had to make a terrible decision. But it was very early on. I wish Jesus had still been here so that he could physically wrap me in his arms to walk past all of those who called me the most horrible of names. Don't any of you realize how complicated life can get?

Jesus was with me, too. i. I just knew it-I felt him there with me. And he will be there to love me through all of it. The only human one who showed any subtle understanding of the complexities of my situation was my doctor--not the name callers I had to be protected from. my doctor saved my life that day. God bless him.

A.

Posted by: me at October 7, 2004 12:20 AM

A

are you sure that was Jesus? i mean, God does forgive (once a person sincerely repents), but i'm not aware that He walks with people while they willingly go through with something He hates. repentance is agreeing with God about sin, and turning from that.

secondly, let me tell you a slightly different story, of a woman who was raped. she choose life for her baby, and gave the child up for adoption. why? because the child should not be punished for the sin of its father. that woman went on to become happily married, and the mother of other children. she is completely at peace with her decision to allow her child to live, and to be placed in the loving arms of a couple who wanted a child desperately but couldn't conceive.

God does not make mistakes.

it is sad that someone didn't try to show love and compassion to you during that episode - i'm not sure of all the details - but in my view you also failed the compassion test in regards to how you and your 'doctor' chose to deal with the matter. the good news is that it's not too late for you to repent and call sin 'sin', and be forgiven. though i don't presume to know the pressures you were under, the truth is that what you did was wrong, no matter how you try to justify it.

Posted by: jerry at October 10, 2004 06:51 PM

I've done sidewalk counseling for many years and currently work at a pregnancy help center that deals with many women considering abortion. I have never heard a sidewalk counselor verbally attack a woman entering an abortion mill. We offer loving alternatives.

My husband and I also have had 13 women live in our home over the course of about 15 years. Two of them were rape victims. They spared themselves the grief of knowing they did to their babies what the rapist did to them. One of the young women used to dream about the horror of the rapist's attack, but never considered hurting her baby. She was the mother, after all. Because she was stabbed in the abdomen during the rape, she miscarried, but did not have to live with the grief of knowing she killed her baby because of the father's sin.

No woman's life was ever improved by abortion. Some have subsequently died from breast cancer, a disease that has exploded since abortion became legal.

It is interesting that those who show graphic pictures and share the truth of abortion are labeled "terrorists" and "violent." But those who DO what the bloody pictures only show are defended. It is one more example of attacking the messenger who tells the unpleasant truth.

The pro-life movement is the most non-violent group of civil protestors in the history of this country. The number of abortion mill workers injured or killed is very small. Pro-lifers who have been threatened are ignored by the media. How many hear of the bombs thrown into their homes? Human Life International did a study showing their were thousands attacked and threatened, but hidden by the pro-abortion media. How many know about the bomb threat recently sent to Alan Keyes' campaign in Illinois?

The blindness and hypocrisy is not surprising. Someone who favors stabbing a baby in the neck with a scissors and suctioning out his brains would hardly be squeamish about lying or acting violently toward others.

Posted by: Mary Ann at October 31, 2004 06:18 PM

i still question this fear and scare tactic method that you all seem to use in attempting to save people. religion is a great way of going about it, if you are speaking to other christians, i suppose. but when you get out into the big world, you will find that the majority of people are not religious and do not believe what you do, in fact some will laugh in your faces. you will not be able to scare those people into believing what you do, and i would love to know what your method is for helping these people.

additionally, you JUST sat here and questioned whether or not someone could physically see repentances to prove that they are not happening, and then you counter yourself by questioning whether or not the Lord could have even been bothered to comfort this emotionally pained woman! if you are going to make this debate about religion, than please do it correctly. you know that the Lord would NEVER abandon His child simply because she had to make a difficult decision such as this. the Lord is the most forgiving force in the whole of time and i refuse to accept that He would not have been there for her... been her solace when He was needed, even if she was doing something that He did not agree with. casting judgement will get you nowhere. i pray that you find mercy enough to lend a hand to those who go through what you will never have to experience.

A... i commend you for your strength. keep on!

Posted by: hillary at November 30, 2004 12:47 PM

hillary

your post contains so much schizophrenia i don't know where to begin. the following statement of yours is totally convoluted and completely lacking in any relation to reality:

"additionally, you JUST sat here and questioned whether or not someone could physically see repentances to prove that they are not happening, and then you counter yourself by questioning whether or not the Lord could have even been bothered to comfort this emotionally pained woman!"

i re-read this statement about four times and still have absolutely no idea what it means....
i never said God cannot comfort a woman after she has committed a terrible sin. but to imply that a woman going through with an abortion is 'comforted' by the presence of God is blasphemous. for God to be there and forgive her afterwards, should she repent, is another matter altogether.

as far as this business about abortion being a 'difficult decision' and God being 'understanding' about that - please....
God does NOT approve of baby killing. and He does NOT walk with people while they commit horrendous acts of evil, even if they do so out of ignorance. there is nothing in scripture that supports your view - sorry.

God does forgive, but only when someone repents and asks for forgiveness, by agreeing with Him about sin. in other words - repentance.

i suggest you do a bit more reading of God's Word before weighing in with what you think He is all about.

Posted by: jerry at November 30, 2004 11:06 PM

Last evening, I spoke (online) with a friend who has read "Their Blood Cries Out." My friend and I have many similarities. She too is post-abortive. She too is deeply repentant and has received absolution. She concurs with me - 100% - in my heartfelt respect for your efforts to rid our world of abortion. We are both victims of rape, although my pregnancy was not the result of this crime. She shared with me some of the passages from your book that concern her, however.

Like me - she is deeply hurt by being compared to Timothy McVeigh and deemed a "contract killer" - a cold-blooded acid-assin who deserves to be executed by the state.

Did you really make these evocations - with straight face and untroubled conscience?

If you did, then I cannot in good conscience purchase this book. No, I was not executed by the state - and the idea of a 16-year-old girl being put to death for the sin I committed (and a serious sin it was) - and in the circumstances I faced - is very hurtful to me.

I make no apologies - to you or anyone else - for not hating myself. I make no apologies for surviving more suicide attempts than King Ramses had concubines. I will not regard every man who impregnated any post-abortive woman on a par with Uday and Qusay, the two raping, pillaging piles of Saddam-spawned pig puke who are now mercifully dead.

After three decades, I know I should be more thick-skinned. But the legacy of abortion wounds the heart - not the intellect. I refuse to sublimate a vital aspect of my womanhood on the altar of the psychobabblic pop spewage commonly found in Ms. Magazine.

I don't know if you concern yourself with post-abortive women - nor if you care about our feelings, but you have hurt me. You have hurt me (and my friend) very deeply indeed.

Posted by: Pacifistic Polly at January 28, 2005 07:45 AM

In skimming over these comments, a couple things came to mind...
there are some people who end up in hard circumstances, but the unborn baby shouldn't be executed for the crimes of the father (as in rape or incest)...
These cases are extremely rare however, and most women abort b/c of fear of their reputation, but sadly in our society somehow some people feel it's more okay to kill an already conceived child, than to let them live..
another thought was just that I am so glad Jesus is so merciful, and forgiving..but he does not ever permit abortion, the killing of a child, for any reason, anymore than he would say okay to shooting your neighbor b/c their a pain in the neck.

Posted by: Dee Dee at January 28, 2005 07:34 PM

polly

i'm afraid you may have taken some things out of context. no one, least of all ORW, is advocating the execution of any post-abortive woman. ORW reaches out in kindness to post-abortive women all over america, and there are links on this site specifically for their benefit.

the doctrine of bloodguilt, which is the main focus of the book, has to do with a nation that is guilty of bloodshed, and how to return to a Godly, life-affirming state of affairs. we're ALL guilty of the sin of abortion - the clergy who won't preach on it, the men who want it legal so they don't have to take responsibility, the grandmothers who advocate it for their daughters so they can go on to college or some such thing, the pew-sitters who refuse to get involved, the politicians who sell out and won't stand for righteousness, the wall-street people who invest in abortion technology to make money, etc......

we ALL deserve death. but thankfully, Jesus has paid the price so that we do not have to. but the apathy on this matter is simply intolerable, and troy has helped to put things in perspective. but you are mistaken to assume that words taken out of context mean what you think they mean. he is minister of the Gospel, for God's sake - do you really think that he would advocate the execution of women who have been deceived into aborting, or coerced into aborting, or whatever...? please do some more research on this - contact cheryl, or troy - but don't pass judgement based on what little info you've come across that has been blown out of proportion and taken out of context. your friend has leaped to conclusions, and i would venture to say, has not read the entire book, but only picked out selected paragraphs that bothered her, and is on a crusade now to make troy look vicious, when it just isn't so.

Posted by: tony at February 5, 2005 07:53 PM

"Tony".....

First of all - a few words about my longtime friend, whom I've known and cherished since the fall of 1971:

She is a highly-educated mother and wife who currently serves on the faculty of a major Kansas university. She is also now (and has always been) one of the sweetest and most unaffected people in the world. (Some years ago, I told her she was "religious in the purest sense of the word." I meant it.) She too is post-abortive and has counseled more than a few young girls who, like she and I, are repentant (and older and wiser than they once were). None of them are scheming, profligate "contract killers" - nor do any of us resemble Timothy McVeigh.

The idea that my friend is "on a crusade" to make anyone "look bad" is ludicrous.

Guessing (correctly, as it turns out) that the authors would fail to respond to my earnest question(s) expressed earlier, I asked my friend to fax me a few chapters. She did so.

Suffice it to say, "Tony" - I couldn't believe my eyes.

Obviously, I'm not really an unintelligent woman myself. (I'm leaving out that morbid period at the end of 1974, when my vision of greatness involved gazing at someone's trailer-park refrigerator in which the grease has coagulated into the likeness of the Marquis de Sade.)

Further, allow me to stress what has been, for me, the defining principle of my (adult) life. I've been fond of congratulating myself that my extrication from Roman Catholicism in 1989 was autonomous. That was not wholly correct. I was comforted immeasurably by a book titled "A Question of Conscience." The author, whose name has long escaped my memory and whom I still wish to thank, stated the following in his opening premise: "Christian commitment cannot be divorced from concern for human suffering." That was the writer's overarching theme.

Similarly, it should have informed the verbiage of "Their Blood Cries Out."

Post-abortive anguish can do many things - both positive and negative. It can transform hearts. It can be propulsive. It can guide consciences and alter the course of one's life. It can also wreak havoc, and have a deleterious effect upon one's relationships - marital and/or otherwise.

Praise God - my friend has triumphed and persevered. As a wife and mother and educator, she doesn't really have time to be undone by the cruelties of others. But she sees others who are not so fortunate.

Forget being "hurt," "Tony." I'm just downright angry right about now.

Posted by: "Polly" at February 8, 2005 06:38 AM

My post was taken off. Why? Because I told the truth. Operation Rescue terrorized my child yesterday by exposing her to the Truth Trucks and taking away my rights to protect the child I chose to bring into this world. You disrupted the right of my parenting to decide when a 7 year old should view graphic and oversized images of late stage abortions. She witnessed dismembered and beheaded pictures on the side of a truck that we passed on the highway. Your organization was responsible for disrupting my child's sleep and feeling of safety in her life. Shame on you . I will keep posting. This was unfair to me as a parent. I chose life. You chose to violate my right to protect her. Freedom of Speech let you torture a child who is living in this world and did not deserve to be exposed to those images. You accomplished nothing good. Nothing. Feel good about your sick selves. Probably. You don't value all life.

Posted by: Melinda at February 8, 2005 11:41 AM

polly

i have no problem with the point of troy's book, which is NOT intended to address PAS. it is intended to wake up a lethargic, apathetic and indifferent church to what is going on around it every day.

as far as mcveigh goes, all of us are guilty of offending an almighty God, and i suspect that He is equally offended by the nonchalance and apathy of His people in the face of a holocaust like abortion, than He is by the sin itself. just because you or i didn't do what mcveigh did, doesn't let us off the hook. we have all sinned and come short of the glory of God, and the Bible tells us the the human heart is 'desperately wicked'.

that's all of us, polly, not just tim mcveigh.
you can try and cast yourself as not being as bad as the next guy, but God doesn't grade on a curve. we're all guilty, and we all must give an account.

this is why He sent His Son, that we might believe in Him, and have everlasting life.

as far as this book goes, i think you and your friend are trying to find things to be offended about, rather than just reading the whole thing and trying to understand what the author is really trying to say about the national guilt of every american, in the face of 32 years of legalized baby killing. there are plenty of books about PAS, and i doubt they discuss other issues, such as national bloodguilt. there are books about helping prolife politicians campaign, books about the breast cancer link, books about abortion and the church, books about planned parenthood and their bloody legacy, etc.... and none of these books address all the issues. i don't think it's realistic for you to try to find comfort and healing in this type of book. there are dozens of organizations and publications that do a fine job with that area. but no one organization or publication can deal with all of the peripheral issues relating to sanctity of life.

troy's book (i have read some of it, and will read the rest) is about forcing people to face up to the judgement that america is storing up for itself, if we continue down this path. and if you know scripture at all, you will see that
God hates it when His people don't pursue justice for the poor, weak, and small among us. and He always holds nations accountable for this type of thing.

Posted by: tony at February 8, 2005 06:02 PM

human must stop killing innocent baby

Posted by: misterious at February 11, 2005 07:57 AM

Humans should also not be allowed to use freedom of speech in an irreseponsible behavior. Humans should protect innocent life here on earth and shelter young children from graphic images before they are ready. Children who are living should not be exploited and used in front of abortion clinics. Children should not be targeted in your campaign and should be protected from your distorted images on vans driving down the highway. I want to know how you claim to protect life when you subject innocent, young, spiritually pure lives to aborted fetuses. How can you value life when you carelessly expose your campaign to the masses without regard to a parents' right to censorship and responsible guidance in sex education. Our televison stations chose not to show beheadings of innocent lives tortured by the terrorists in Iraq. They did so to protect innocent children from graphic images. TV shows prepare audiences for graphic images before showing in order to protect parents from allowing their children to see images before they are ready. But not Operation Rescue with the so called Truth Trucks. No warning, no regard for parental protection, just the graphic images for a young child to see. Truth maybe, Reckless Advertisement, most definetely. How do you explain your so called protectection of life....

Posted by: Melinda at February 11, 2005 10:17 AM

To the parent who was upset that her child viewed the pictures on the Truth Truck: that is sad, but it shows that NOTHING GOOD can ever come from abortion, and we should not expect that. It is not possible for a society that has permitted 50,000,000 of its innocent posterity to be done to death, to "hide" this monstrous fact, nor should it be hidden. The sin of abortion is so monstrous that, again, NOTHING good can ever come of it. If we as parents do not want our children affected by abortion, we should work to end it. If this were Nazi Germany and there were pictures to be seen of the ongoing horrors of the concentration camps, would you be upset that they be seen, or that they occured! The only thing good that can ever come from evil, is that the hearts of people be turned to resist that evil in every possible way that they can, and defeat it. To the person who says we need not do anything because God will address the evils in the world, this is not at all Biblical. We are to do good and avoid evil. Also, "the only thing necessary for evil to triumph, is that good men do nothing." Evil IS triumphing. It is time to begin resisting it! God bless Troy and the other courageous ones on the very front lines of the battle. They deserve the gratitude and deep admiration of us all, though that is not what they seek. The least the rest of us can do is to get behind then, lest they who lead the charge at so much personal sacrifice turn around to see no one following! If you are a high school or college student, go and help outside of the killing places. If you are a retired person in reasonable health who now has time, don't spend it playing Bridge; go and make your presence known at the killing places. If you are a person who spends hundreds of hours a year watching television, turn it off and go to the killing places. We all will have to give an accounting of the wasted time in our lives when there was so much good to be done. If you are a professional person who finds time for sports and leisure and entertainment, ask yourself if you have no time at all to help others, rather than indulge yourself. If you attend church, ask yourself if you are bearing the fruit of what you have heard in your services, or if you go out to breakfast, or go home, and then forget what you have heard about truly loving God and your neighbor. Think of it! If there were hundreds of people crammed onto the sidewalks around the killing place every single day, week in and week out, in all weather and all seasons, more people than could ever be taken away, peacefully, prayerfully there as a never-ending presence, the killer would give it up and go away. Let us begin! The hour is so late!

A heartsick Kansan.


Posted by: Sandra at February 13, 2005 11:48 AM

It's funny how no one from ORW has repsonded to Melinda's comments about your so-called "Truth Truck". It seems she isnt the only one that had a post removed. I commented about those trucks driving thru Tampa a few weeks ago and my post is no where to be found. I realize this is your site and you can manage and edit it as you please, but if you're gonna force-feed your propoganda to the public with your trucks and your rhetoric than allow those of us affected by it to voice our opinion back to you.

Don't be selective in what you post and cowardly when you don't have some super-charged religious comeback for a posting someone put on here, simply acknowledge it and use your religion as an excuse for all you do like you always do.

Just remember that no matter what you do abortion will always be a sin that exists, your radical ways of dealing with it will turn more people from God then turn them toward him. They will think a lot like I do already......"It's not God I have the problem with, it's just some of his fans."

Do your qrganization and the general public a favor, get those disgustingly graphic and totally offensive trucks off the street. My kids and others who could care less about your cause don't need to be exposed to this, you supposedly care so much about the children then why the hell do you want to subject them to content like this!!!

You claim your cause is for the preservation of life and what's right. Well exposing my kids and other children to your graphic garbage isn't right and does nothing to motivate me to rally behind your cause, more than anything it convinces me that you're just a bunch of right-wing religious radical fanatics who care about nothing more than your own agenda, regardless of who is exposed to it.

Posted by: MIke at February 18, 2005 03:45 PM

Thanks to those who chose to comment on my post. I will no longer be on the site, for I do not want to give anymore energy to the operationrescue website. If you truly want to effect change, you would do so at the source of the problem, not trying to attack those professionals who are trying to help someone get through a life crisis. It is not a political or a religious problem. The problem is rooted at fear. Women who are faced with abortion are faced originally with unprotected sex or careless sexual behavior. They have abortions to solve the crisis and it appears to be the most viable choice. They would have it regardless of the law.... Regardless of your group standing in front of the clinics...regardless of your disgusting trucks. The true heroes of this casue are the parents who talk to their children and provide a safe place no matter what their kids are faced with.... The only way to stop abortion is to open communication and safety...your way does not work. I will continue to protect my child and teach her, and what I hope to do is to show her ways to make a choice of protection.. not careless, graphic, distorted responses to crisis in her life... not like the areas of life your group focuses on....

Posted by: Melinda at February 20, 2005 11:27 AM

I usually hate to get involved in this, since no one ever really changes anyone else's mind. But, are there some points in this argument worth considering:

1) Christians should be willing to admit that their position is derived from their (often over simplified) exegesis (interpretation of the Bible). Thus, any scientific or legal reasoning (e.g. genetics is an imperfect marker of personhood. i.e. cancer may have very different but human genes from its carrier, but we do not consider it human) will not be persuasive.
2) Christians are called not to law, but to love. Christ was not a reinstitution of the Davidic line as a temporal power. Christ's fundamental message is Christians change their lives so that they will be a source of change for the world. If Christians are called to follow Jesus as their primary faith statement, then they are called to live their message like Him- through self-sacrifice and not through instituting temporal law. The pagan Roman empire was not changed by taking over the magistrates and outlawing sacrifices. Even Constantine only made Christianity accepted within the Empire. Forced conversions came later and should be considered a blight upon the Christian mission. Change takes place in hearts and lives, not in law. Therefore, Christians should fundamentally work on getting all of the children in foster homes into families. There is a great moral difference between picking up an already living, exposed child (as early Christians did) and simply forcing women to bear children they feel unable to raise. So, you say adopt? Good Christians, do so! Adopt the child with Down's syndrome, adopt the 5 yr old with a traumatic past. There is a 10 year wait for a healthy white baby, but, Good News, you can have one with special needs this year! Support the women who chose to keep their children, not perinatally, but when the child is 5, 10, 15. Find a woman who chose to keep the baby and start a college fund for it. Invest yearly the same amount you do for your child. How about responsible voting that will mean self-sacrifice? Vote to increase taxes to pay for healthcare for all children, Head Start, worker education programs. Vote to protect the environment so that future generations can enjoy God's world as it was intended. As yourself where am I taking more of my share of resources that should be someone else's. What would Jesus drive? These are not unrelated issues, my friends.
3) Non-christians are not immune from moral arguments. Just because you do not believe in God does not you do have a sense of right and wrong. People of other faiths also have fundamentally moral core beliefs. Morality is a way of functioning in civil society. We must be able to agree to common precepts about what are the goals and values of our shared life in community. This will take responsible dialogue and not "'Cause the Bible told me So."
5) The pro-choice position is not necessarily pro-abortion. It allows for individual moral choice on the part of those most intimately affected by the fundamentally dependent fetus' existence. Most pro-choice supporters actively seek ways to reduce the number of women who need such services.
Somewhere in the midst of this, perhaps we really can find common ground.

6)For something a bit more incendiary - perhaps the critical issue is whether a fetus is alive and therefore granted protection under law. A fetus is not autonomous; therefore in a strict current legal sense, even if human, it does not have autonomous rights. In a sense, the umbilical cord's closest analogy is the artificial feeding system (tube feeding). Feeding tubes are considered artificial support, and can be legally removed by those controlling the patient's rights (the issue in Florida is who has those rights, not whether it is a right, whatever the Neo-Pharisee Christians want to say). Since the fetus is not autonomous, the woman could chose to terminate the "artificial feeding" supplied by the umbilical cord.
Ok, you say. Let's just consider fetuses independent beings. However, everyone must admit that there is an intimacy of that connection. The state of the fetus is one of utter dependency; whatever its living status it is not an independent being. No woman considers her fetus simply an autonomous being taking temporary residence inside her. If fetuses were independent beings, then there should be no problem in the woman taking Mifipristone. Remember, it is a fully independent being with autonomous rights. The woman is simply injesting a chemical, the fetus is an independent bystander, who happens to share a blood/placenta barrier. Sure, it didn't choose for her to do that; but I don't choose for you to drive a SUV that pollutes my air snd gives me cancer either. Fetuses are not independent lives; it doesn't make sense, therefore, treating them as such. They are interdependent on the woman in such a way that her rights and concerns about continuing that relationship do matter in ways that the relationship between a mother and her 3 year old child do not. A three year old child is an independent life; whether a fetus is alive or not (biologically the answer is, I'm afraid, no) it is not independent. A three year old can be cared for by someone who is not their mother, a fetus cannot. A thee year old is a human with a developed neocortex, a fetus is not. A three year old sustains their own life (I know, you can't leave them in the forest by themselves, but they can breath, eat, react) in ways that a fetus cannot (yes, pre-viability (with the generous definition of when 10-15% survice) but that is when the vast majority of abortions occur). The murdering your child vs. aborting a fetus is not a responsible argument because of the vast substantial difference in independence and ability to be cared for between the fetus and the child.

Posted by: allie at February 24, 2005 08:53 PM

allie

a lot of words, but none of it substantive, or supportable with facts.

you, as a pagan, have no right to come on this site and try to explain what you think Christians are supposed to believe or do. the altar that you worship at is your own self image. Christians worship the Creator of all things, including the unborn.

the Bible is very clear on the humanity of every person, born and unborn - there is no ambiguity there whatsoever. so you've failed to persuade anyone of your left wing gobblygook. as far as the environment, and raising taxes, and the old, tired standby about foster care, etc... - get real. these are pathetic arguments that have no substance. abortion kills a human being, no matter what the level of development of that child (or if you prefer to use the latin word for "little one", which is 'fetus', then fine).

the lies you have told in your post are a shameful attempt to try and cloud the issue. abortion is no different than throwing your three year old down the stairs.

hey, allie - just a suggestion here. why don't you try a few things:

1) get a Bible for the first time in your miserable life and read it - and get involved with a Bible study program so you don't read it backwards and upside down, trying to make it say what you think it should say

2) study elementary biology

3) view an abortion taking place (numerous films exist - i suggest either 'hard truth' or 'eclipse of reason'.)

4) view an ultrasound

5) do some research on post-abortion syndrome and how many women (and men) suffer from it, and what they think about your silly notions on the value of unborn life

something tells me, though, with a head as thick as yours, nothing will penetrate. i'm sure you'll still cling to the ridiculous opinions you've gotten from some proabortion website, and will still remain proabortion, which is exactly the same as being "prochoice".

Posted by: jerry at February 27, 2005 05:01 PM

Jerry-
See, this is the weird thing about the abortion thing. For you it is clearly a matter of faith, and any other arguement is unacceptable. But you want to make it law in a country of peeople who do not necessarily share your faith. Engage in the ethics of the issue in a pluralistic society or set up your theocracy somewhere else. But for your suggestions-
1) My life is not miserable, but thanks for the Christian love. Nevertheless, I consider myself a Christian. I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. No, really, I do. It gets worse. I've studied both Christian theology and science at a graduate level. So, yeah, I've had a bit of elementary biology.
So, 2)I have read the Bible, throughly, repeatedly, and faithfully. Bible studies, Church, courses in Old and New Testament and Theology with Evangelicals, Catholics and pro-lifers too. I would not say that the Bible is unanimous on the humanity of the fetus. Why are fetuses or even infants under one month NOT counted AS PEOPLE in Numbers 3.15, Exodus 27.6? How do you responsibly translate Exodus 21.22? In the Hebrew, the fight causes, at a minimum, a premature birth if not miscarriage. Trust me, virtually no premature infants would not have survived in ancient Israel. And yet, it is not considered on par with taking human life. How many times do faithful people in the Bible say that it would be better than they had never been born? Why does the "breath of life" seem to matter for what constitutes living? I know, I know, the devil can quote scripture for his purposes. But, "no ambiguity"? Maybe you should read the whole thing, too.
3) Part of reading the whole book is understanding what a faithful life looks like. You tell me I am not factual and then dismiss arguements that Christians should live lives that responsibly care for society. What sort of evidence is "these are pathetic arguments that have no substance"? Christians are, in fact, called to be Christ to the world by self-sacrifice. Christ LOVED, unconditionally and self-sacrificially. And he had an aweful lot to say about what Christians should do with their money. Creating a world where women have the resources they need not just to bring a child into into the world but to support its flourishing is pro-life, responsible pro-life. Being environmental says that you believe in caring for all of God's creation so that future generations can use it as well. Face it - the suggestions I made would require more of you than just voting Republican does (which is so convenient that you can vote God and Mammon) and are a lot more in keeping with how Christ tells us to be Christian than hate-filled speech, fear, intimidation, nasty pictures, and getting the government to do our work for us through penial law.
But you say, it is murder, and that matters more? Even if I accepted your argument, the WORLD will always offer DEATH. Abortiofacients have been around since biblical times. They will exist after Roe V Wade. Christians can only offer the ABUNDANT LIFE that God offers them if they would actually live their lives faithfully before telling other people what to do. How we create the Kingdom of God on Earth matters. Minimalists statments like "well, at least they are alive" will not do. What profits them to gain their life only to lose it again? We have a higher calling, a calling to care radically, self-givingly, and throughout the child's whole life. Hate, fear, intimidation, (petty insults), and punishment have no place in the Christian offer of life.
4) I've seen ultrasounds, even taken a whole graduate level course in Embryology. I know when the heart beats, when the neocortex develops, how that little ball of cells differentiates. I also know in gory detail the sorts of severe malformations that can occur. I haven't seen an abortion, but I know rachischisis or trisomy 13 are pretty darn horrible too. 30-50 percent of conceptions ending in miscarriage makes it hard for me to accept it as the beginning of full, independent God-ordained human life.
5) Post abortion syndrome. I absolutely think that women should receive psychological care, emotional support, and love before, during and after an abortion. The decision to abort should come after spiritual, emotional consideration, when other options are offered and refused. It grieves me if they later experience profound grief, regret, and remorse over their experience. We should do all we can to care for them as people. But, that doesn't address the whole question of where it comes from. So, emotions aside - Is this innate or aquired, and can we decide? My opinion is that guilt by hatefilled anti-abortionists that you are going to hell if you don't feel really bad for it produces some of it. For some reputable sources-
American Psychological Association - unable to detect any long term Post abortion syndrome.
Journal of the American Medical Association - describes PAS as a rare phenomenon.
No offense, if I trust them over unabashedly biased sites like this.
Well, Jerry, I am sure this is all just more of my thickness. At the moment I sort of wish I were a pagan, then I wouldn't have to pray for my enemies who want to turn Christianity into a big stick to beat other people with or make laws instead of acting in accordance with their teachings.

Posted by: allie at February 28, 2005 08:58 PM

i am currently reading this book and find it to be an excellent source of undeniable and profound truth regarding the issue of modern child sacrifice. i would urge anyone who thinks they understand this issue to get a copy and read it.
but it won't do you any good if you have a tendency to read your Bible upside and backwards.

speaking of which, in response to the proabortion lies of allie, who claims to know the Lord, but holds views that are totally foreign to the Author of life:

allie

i do agree that you seem to have a propensity for thick-headedness. but that is a small thing compared to your Biblical illiteracy and ignorance, which is appalling.

as i've stated previously, the prolife case can be made easily without any reference to religion, the Bible, or even anything philosophical in nature. all you need is basic biology, which in your rush to try and typecast me as a religious zealot, you overlooked my challenge to you to study same. you can claim that you have, but if you had, you would not hold such ignorant and totally unfactual views on the sanctity of human life. the fact that a baby is miscarried doesn't mitigate against that child being made in the image of God. what an foolish attempt to try and cloud the issue of baby killing. more proabortion blindness on display, courtesy of allie.

the bottom line is, allie, your god is not my God. i worship the God of scripture, represented in the three Persons of the Holy Trinity. and the Bible is unabashedly, thoroughly, and unambiguously prolife. only an idiot would try and make the opposite case, or even a
'gray area' case, like you've tried to do. in reading the Bible allie, you have not been given the spiritual eyes to understand it. that only comes with born-again status, and good spiritual teaching from people who know more than you. obviously, you've attempted to study God's word with you as your own Bible scholar, and you've ended up thoroughly confused. your viewpoints are distorted and not based on basic Bible truths.
if you wanted to take a college course on some subject, would you consider yourself as educated in that field simply because you purchased the textbook and read it? something tells me you would.

again, allie you don't know the Saviour, but i hope you make His acquaintance someday soon.

Posted by: jerry at March 13, 2005 09:12 PM

I won't even pretend to know much about this issue I just had one or two points to put out there. First of all Jesus hates no man and nothing. To think otherwise is pure blasphamy (thus all who think so shall never see the light of god). Secondly God knew what he was doing when we were created with free choice, to deny any man (or woman) that free choice is to deny them God. Life is never created and never extinguished. It exsists as does God, and to say that a life is ended is to say that God is ended. The living of life is not black and white as some of you Christian fundamentalists seem to think, it comes in many shades of gray, and situation arise where some are brought to the light by what you deem as evil. If you think that salvaton can be brought to anyone by a means other than peace and love then you have placed your faith in the wrong man. Jesus was a wonderful being and tried to teach the ways of the lord, but there are those few of you who still do not understand. War to avert war is a situation that arises from fear. Who are you trying to save, a newborn, an unbeliever, or yourselves? Is it you who has commited some terrible wrong and now feel that your way to heaven can be "bought" by bringing others to "salvation." You are the unfaithful. You are the ones who exiled us from the Garden of Eden, and you are the ones who cause all our worldly woes by harboring Satan in your hearts so that you may project him onto those you see fit to.

Posted by: Ben at April 4, 2005 10:46 AM
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